Roxxar wrote:good lord this is getting too long and convoluted than i was expecting to be uhh lets work our way from the bottom up because change is good and thats what i read last
ok
Roxxar wrote:i think it'd be best to clarify exactly what im saying from the getgo because it's obviously very inarticulate and possibly even contradicting itself in various parts:
in a sense, i dont really have a problem with the balance of futuristic vs realistic weapons you're getting at. but i just dont see the futuristic side of that balance being properly met, and i think artists need to take a bit more initiative in order to do so.
just going to mention that there is a definition problem that might become a thing: what is realistic and what is futuristic?
the cp assault rifle and the rmk, where do they fit? the cp assault rifle looks realistic but it has some nice sound that isnt real bullets, does it change what it is or is appearance what matters?
the rmk looks oddly realistic yet shoots deliciously exquisite pizza sauce bng bullets
Roxxar wrote:assuming all guns will be made in pb2's aesthetic and overall style with relatively fair/balanced stats (2 stale words at this point), the amount of guns that get in won't matter so long as the game/Eric puts them in both by demand AND balance. yes this means that if there's 50 real guns and 10 futuristic guns, there should be an equal amount of both getting in rather than a scaled amount of each (i.e. 5 real and 5 future, not 35 real and 7 future).
so what happens is that we had too many artists creating real life guns that were skilled and many creative people who were quite bad, like KLM, or some people with high capacity for creativity having quite generic stuff accepted into the game, such as Darkstar
so here are pb2s guns n how i classify them, ill be excluding the defibrilator and vehicle guns:
realistic: cs-pro, glock? qccv50, cr42 - minigun, cs-rc, cs-oicw, m4a1? lmg, phanx, cp assault rifle? av-135, cr45 - cs-daz - sniper rifle???, needle - rpg (17)
futuristic: c01p, alien pistol, falkok pistol - c01r, ray rifle, alien rifle - c01s, alien shotgun, falkok shotgun - lite railgun, heavy railgun, gauss rifle, alien sniper rifle, falkok rifle, energy rifle - cs-litbro, falkok grenade launcher, generic grenade launcher? - plasmagun, heater, rmk36? - raygun, virus gun (23)
TURNS OUT THERE IS MORE FUTURISTIC STUFF!
what actually happens is that we have the illusion of much real stuff because of how much of it is made and submitted, but like, we dont have any realistic guns for slot 7, 8 and 9, and many many realistic guns for slot 2, with a lack of variety for slot 1(no revolver, that could be an AV faction gun), also with a lack of shotguns(!!! look at what i made !!!), and then there is a ton of slot 4s that are futuristic and not really bound to specific factions
i disagree with you, the problem is the lack of creativity, not futurism or realism, we need good ideas for slot 5, 7, 8 and 9, but how do we make realistic guns for these slots? we kind of dont, slot 9 are weird stuff, slot 8 heavy firing automatic stuff and slot 7 op one shot stuff, i have a idea of a slot 7/8 gun but it still isnt realistic, that is the problem
Roxxar wrote:1) no i wasnt directly referencing you in that tidbit; i didnt even know those were your choice of study because the most i remember you for is the boz music memes so i somewhat jokingly assumed that was probably your desired career/study choice
makes sense, ill go completely out of topic now:
actually i dont study economics or psychoanalysis as in a formal way via university n shit i just buy some books read some articles some lectures n etc
and youre not completely wrong, im doing some fancy machine-learning music generation algorithm that is supposed to be able to generate music following more specific rules than the ones already made and in that i need to use my music theory knowledge so i guess it counts?
Roxxar wrote:2) alien rifle vs. M14-SKS style guns: i know its nice to have balance and sort of counterparts to a role, i was just wondering why our minds immediately go to a realistic gun that exists irl but not in-game instead of just... yknow MAKING one. i thought that was a rather self-explanatory point in that we're comparing an alien single-shot (even though they're all full-auto technically) rifle to an M14 or SKS that's not even in-game. like lets say you wanted a marksman rifle in halo before it came out because halo was somewhat lacking in those kinds of guns other than the covenant carbine. instead of saying something like "wow halo really needs an M1 Garand or a Bushmaster ACR" they could just make the DMR like they did in Halo: Reach.
in essence, this point is completely trivial and the most at an attempt of a bit of beef/trolling because i already know what you're trying to say here and i agree with it. the lack of supply thing you mentioned, i will address a little later
so that would be nice, if almost all of cs guns werent realistic for slot 1, 2 and 3! if we have a desert eagle, a xm8, a generic shotgun (i knew what specific model but forgot), the only creative thing being the sniper rifle which is still generic, why not a m14 to go with the alien rifle, some fast firing gun for slot 2 for aliens like an alien carbine or something, a alien shotgun that acts like our shotgun, a slug shotgun that is quite equivalent to the alien shotgun, etc
of course people can create things out of nowhere but the CS and the AV factions wouldnt really fit that much, i think a rework in most of the AV faction guns would be nice, if they followed a darker color scheme with red lights like my AV-235 does, by the way i modded it into the game
https://gyazo.com/59326a87a98d8b26f3c9d045c0784cb5though i didnt change the bullet into the red one we have but i think a new projectile would be nice i can mod that later
instead of giving the DMR to the CS give it to the robots and make it white or something, etc, or not, but then remember balance is a nice thing to achieve and we should look for more slot specific stuff, by that we kind of end the problem with slot 4 railguns, slot 7 and maybe slot 8 but then the heater exists
Roxxar wrote:3) risk-taking behaviour: if it means anything, i liked the ideas and originality behind those. i understand the idea of the predetermined demand (which i will, again, address a little later) and i agree with most of what you said here. im okay with my guns not being as commonly used and i somewhat predicted that because 2 of them have arbitrary mechanics, but im proud that i was able to at least expand the "falkok" arsenal a little and throw in a little curveball.
i think this is the kind of diversity i personally most strive for: gameplay diversity. most shotguns are spread far and slow with grenade launchers being big and single-shot, well how about the fast burst shotgun and 3 smaller grenades at once? whatever you get the point. it seems like a LOT of the cs/av weapons are pretty one-trick and it sounds like you and many others want them in primarily for their appearance (because objectively speaking, most of them function similarly as slot 2 weapons, as krutz mentioned) which is okay... but dont leave futurism behind is what i think im trying to get at.
it is important too, a lot of pb2 is done with its lore and it spossibility, custom maps will end up being really important, terrorist vs counter terrorist maps with the AV faction would be nice, as well as PB2s lore, etc
Krutz mentioned the slug shotgun idea, it could be competition with the alien shotgun if it has a similar rate of fire(maybe slighty slower) but with one bullet that does more damage(its a slug!)
and i mean there isnt much need for creativty for slot 2s or 1s, i did submit that railgun pistol and i had a idea for a slot 2 too, but it would probably end in slot 8 or 9 or whatever, and unsure if you realized but i submitted more futuristic guns than real ones, at least i think i did
Roxxar wrote:4) ignoring the supply-demand conversation for a little
communism now works! socialism also does! hey USSR no need to look at what you need to build or produce in external prices!
i really wanted to make some joke with mises or hayek but nobody would understand it
Roxxar wrote:my take on the voting/submission threads: i hoped i didnt sound that way but obviously i said it poorly. let me make a hypothetical:
- artist A creates 10 realistic guns, but chooses not to submit 4 of them because they look too much like a modern AK/M16. assume they all don't look like an AR-15 decorated by doomwrath
- artist B creates 5 futuristic guns, does not submit 1 because he thinks its a bit overrepresented in-game (e.g. slot 2 guns)
- artist A has 6 guns, artist B has 4 guns. these guns are all good, original, fairly unique, and fairly unseen before
- voters will choose based on what looks best and what is needed most, rather than realize their cod/battlefield dreams in-game (because the cod/battlefield guns wouldnt have been submitted in the first place)
- 3 real guns and 3 futuristic guns get in by popular vote
this is good. let me hypothesize a bad scenario now:
so here is the thing, it isnt considering slots and factions, that is the big deal im trying to say
if the realistic guns are all taking over things we dont have for realistic factions, cool-sexy
if theyre all slot 2s, its not so cool-sexy
same for futuristic guns, are they all slot 4 railguns?
Roxxar wrote:- artist A creates 20 realistic guns, submits 15 of them because the other 5 weren't drawn as well
- artist B creates 5 futuristic guns, submits all of them because he thinks theyre fairly unique ideas
- artist A has 15 guns, artist B has 5 futuristic guns. the real guns look a little too real/modern for the game (i.e. an AK74 or a M249 SAW), and the futuristic guns are fine for the most part
- voters will choose the real guns because they want cod/battlefield style guns in-game and they were submitted so why not; completely neglect the futuristic ones because they want the cod/battlefield style guns
- 10 real guns and 3 futuristic guns get in by "popular" vote
a decently adapted m249 SAW could work for a CS slot 8 gun! then someone makes a fancy slot 8 gun for aliens that has a similar role to the RMK and its all fine!
now the 3 futuristic guns are slot 1, 2 and 3! amazing!
and the realistic guns are a pistol for the AV faction, my AV-235, some kind of small assault rifle for slot 2 to go with the AV-235 but CS edition, some M14, a slower firing slug shotgun, a CS equivalent of the needle, a CS equivalent of a missile launcher(maybe like one that follows oyur mouse or fancy stuff like that), a generic revolver, a marksman rifle to go with the falkok rifle and a realistic grenade launcher!
would that be that bad? really? here is the opposite case
-artist B creates 15 futuristic guns
-artist A has 10 realistic guns
-people choose a bunch of slot 4 futuristic guns, and a bunch of slot 2 realistic guns
that is an actual bad scenario!
Roxxar wrote:i hope that was a good example but its probably really bad and i anticipate your counter/analysis of that. but what i think im trying to get at with the voting phase is that if it's going to be a popular vote, it should be popular because of what the game needs rather than what the player fanatically wants. obviously thats not possible because players will choose what they want, so this is my call to artists to NOT submit what the player fanatically wants but instead what the game may need. if the voting options are ONLY what the game needs and not guns made out of the predetermined demand (again, i will address this later but im starting to think not much more needs to be said about it), then the popular vote will be good.
now we get into a quite complex topic, what does the game need, what its players need, or what makes it balanced? actually its what Eric thinks it needs, and i am agaisnt the poll, it should exist and Eric should handpick what he thinks is cool from it
but even then it wont, people tend to still get a personal preference, lets say you like the alien weapons, you will prefer more alien weapons over CS weapons because you like aliens! same for the CS and the reason why it happens is predetermined bias, but that bias can also be created while in PB2, and there is like the futuristic gun for slot 4 problem too, there is a bias and A LOT of people created generic railguns
but what i see you doing is trying to go to completely not real scenarios to try to achieve what is better, but it turns out that what happens in reality is never going to be this, the thing i said about communism applies here, supply and demand exists, and even then, if we add a balance betwen realistic and futuristic guns, what if people still end up using the realistic guns much more? did it change anything? just the total poll of guns that is lower
Roxxar wrote:this is a really shitty example, but take the 2016 US presidential election for example. technically hillary won the popular vote but trump won the electoral college. if trump wasnt an option to BEGIN WITH, maybe we'd have a better president based on another hypothetical "popular" vote. make the options great again
lets ignore all the problems of democracy and what would actually happen in real life
this is also affected by the idealized case i mentioned earlier, but even in this, people could still build up bias for what is the least worst, a good example i know about is classical music, actually baroque, people had bias for what german organ school they were closer to, for no reason at all, both didnt exclude each other and they all had their specific creative atributes, then composers that merged both like JS Bach kinda were ignored, the north organ school could be alien guns and the south organ school could be robot guns, people could prefer alien guns for any reason at all, the simple fact something is more popular already affects how people judge their views, then if someone made a mix betwen the two, it would be considered quite terrible, but what if it is its own thing?
a good method of fixing all problems is allowing new factions into the game, something that is both futuristic and realistic, so we can just dump stuff in there, do some color changes or whatever
also public opinion if being the only method kind of sucks, its a big problem of democracy, what happens is that, once youre in, you can start deliciously exquisite pizza sauce things up, last time the poll didnt have like animations or bullets, what if the person just stops caring and puts it into Eric? what happens is that it will lower its quality and maybe be less unique too, as well as the fact once someone has a gun into the game, that person will become famous and people will be more likely to vote for guns of said person, literally it just creates inequality
(in real life things such as keynesianism that seem to go well with the lack of long-term oriented action caused by democracy and things such as inflation and cantillon effect kind of deliciously exquisite pizza sauce it up)
jesus i cant ignore its problem deliciously exquisite pizza sauce
Roxxar wrote:5) what players want vs what the game/eric needs: i kinda skimmed this part because at this point we're reaching a part of your post that i read first and therefore im sure my and your thoughts about it this far have gone stale and we've had to go back to each others' posts like every 3 minutes to interpret what we're saying.
a important thing we are not considering is that the demand can change in the future since it is affected by the offer
Roxxar wrote:from what i understand, eric is moving slowly but obviously doesnt mind having this quantity of guns put in. that's completely out of our control, as eric is the creator and ultimately its his decision to put them in game or not. of course that means to keep this game alive, he may or may not have to appeal to a larger audience even if that means putting these kinds of guns in, which is why he wouldnt have a problem putting them in maybe. i guess i want to tie this in with the balance of creating futuristic and realistic guns in relatively equal proportions; if there was actually a quantifiable number of futuristic guns being made and submitted, would eric accept them over realistic guns as a thematic issue, or would he simply accept realistic guns because thats what this audience wants and, ultimately, keeps this game alive?
someone has to ask Eric about that, also the fact that, i think if we all go with Erics ideas it will be better, like if Eric says "we need futuristic guns" we make futuristic guns, if he says "we need realistic guns" we make them, but he doesnt, so i guess the only way is asking, but maybe he likes the way it was made, the simple supply and demand doing its job and creating saturated slots and factions, who knows
Roxxar wrote:6) and finally, if there's anything worth talking about and to keep these posts worth keeping short, it's the discussion of supply vs. demand. i would dare say we both see relatively eye-to-eye with basically every other point this post addressed except for this one. i almost want to make an entire forum thread/post exclusively addressing this in a much more organized/thought-out fashion than the somewhat-bs wordjumble that i'm doing now. but ultimately, what my point comes down to is excess supply.
keynes would be proud
Roxxar wrote:i think in the figurative sense, having excess supply (surplus!) and being rich is obviously great. but realistically (not that i would know financially, but lets just keep it to this game), i think it causes an oversaturation and a shift in creativity or balance in the game.
i have too much tea im getting tired of tea let me get some coffee
oh wait is that a thing called balance? oh, not many people were talking about how realism is a problem in PB2 before the excess of supply happened, and it shifts the demand into... balance! because if a poll happens now, there will be older players that will accept stuff and newer players that accept stuff, older players will be like "too many slot 2s" so they vote lower on them, while new players will probably like them, i dont see a problem in having 50 slot 2 guns BUT most people do so in a poll system they could just vote but i think Eric choosing what he wants is just better for this kind of stuff, i dont think he would allow that to happen
if there is too much white stuff people will start being pressured by it and like counterculture movemetns form out of that, when there was too much generic classical music Beethoven went there and BOOM ROMANTISM, when romantism was too big, BOOM, impressionism, n etc
that also affects modern music, too much generic pop music? mumble rap, lo-fi and other mainstream forms
thats what tends to happen with supply and demand!
Roxxar wrote:predetermined demand isn't a problem nor is it predictable nor is it manageable. we all come in with our own expectations, hopes, desires, etc. for pretty much everything. that's not the problem at all, i dont think. i think, again, the problem is artists trying to make up for this demand with their excess supply, and it ultimately being submitted and even accepted into the game. we already see the oversaturation of slot 2 weapons, and we're starting to see the oversaturation of modern/realistic weapons (proof: we're having a discussion about it right now).
it is a problem, mostly on lower-duration players as i like to call them, a player that spends 2 months playing and leaves, he is the one that wont care about having too many slot 2s, also the ones that dont do map making, the thing about htis in real life is that there are just different products, there is excessive stuff for the masses and higher quality stuff for the elite, it balances it out, this doensnt happen in PB2 and wont
but now there is a lack of realistic artists, or artists as a whole, if you take a look into what ive made in a quite long time from now its mostly futuristic, Incompetence is more realistic-futuristic merge that is more on the realistic side but he doesnt do it for 2.5 reasons it seems like and he did create futuristic fanart that fits into the lore!
and again, this doesnt show the problem of having too much money, it isnt like inflation happens, some guns will be forgotten, some already are, the cr-45 is quite not used, people will realize there is no need for slot 2s and stop creating slot 2s unless they dont do it for 2.5 so we can just not accept his guns or Eric can put the ban hammer on it
I PERSONALLY DONT THINK EXCESS IS A PROBLEM SO THIS IS QUITE HARD FOR ME TO TAKE
i think you got it for this part
Roxxar wrote:when artists do only realistic stuff, i think they should have the discernment to not submit them if it's overrepresented or if it's not that original (see: ak/m16 "future variants"). somewhere in your 48109 page essay you addressed that artists dont always make stuff to get it into the game, which i agree with. the problem therein lies with your next sentence stating that they'll still submit it anyway. if an artist apparently makes stuff to not get it into the game, why are they submitting it? they know that one way or another, it wouldn't fit in with the game... yet they do it anyway? my hypothesis is because of the predetermined demand for it, NOT because they want to create a high standard of supply for it.
just dont accept them, or Eric doesnt, if you truly dont want something tell all of BoZ members to vote low on it or whatever, or create something better
also it can just be ignored! whoever creates the poll can be like "oh this is too generic deliciously exquisite pizza sauce this"
in real life supply and demand fixes this by having a higher number of people consuming so some might like the same kind of gun over and over agian and some may like what is creative, but those who dont adapt prob go banrkupt of whatever, there is no such thing in PB2, maybe if someone submits too many weapons that are too similar or generic or close to what has been made, ignore them? (i personally am agaisnt this)
so your hypothesis makes no sense, there is demand for realistic guns, dude submits it, prob just for the sake of it, its better to submit something than nothing and have no chances, even if it gets accepted it can end up just being ignored in the game and hell maybe even removed, i am also agaisnt that but im trying to take the closest i can to your point of view
Roxxar wrote:what im saying is realistic guns come from an excess of supply tied in with predetermined demand (obviously people that draw realistic guns like realistic guns); i didn't say that realistic guns came from lack of supply (clearly there's a hell of a supply for them). in other words, this excess supply of realistic guns comes from predetermined demand (i agree with what you said, literally i think i made one of the first "cod/battlefield fanboys" analogies to figuratively express that im aware of the predetermined demand).
this doesnt make futuristic guns get ignored at the first place, but if something is different from the bunch it tends to be considered special(because it is) and receive better ratings, but what youre not considering is that what happened last time isnt happening again, many artists such as Darkstar prob wont make more slot 2 or slot 1 automatic weapons, and some like Ditzy might try to be more creative though its quite rare for it to come out of him
but let me explain a concept, i will call guns that are actively used by the community active guns, and guns that are ignored as... ignored guns!
the cr-45 is quite a ignored gun, the cs-rc is quite a active gun
there are 4 AK-47s in the game now! they all get accepted(not that likely, people would prob rate the best out of them, if they werent to close, and then Eric can just pick what he thinks is the best), but LETS SAY ALL 4 GUNS GET ACCEPTED, there will be active or inactive guns, if its all balanced, then what is the problem with having 4 AK-74s? its like having 4 different brands of the same product that has no difference, it just makes so people realize tehre is less need for it, they wont accept more, and it will bring the different stuff to light as i mentioned before
its like having bitcoin, etherium, nano and dash, if one sucks for some reason it will go away, if theyre all accepted because of balance, there should be a minimal difference, 1 vote or 2 votes, the best of the best gets accepted
also in the poll case i will ignore how easily it can be abused
Roxxar wrote:polls arent made by elitist demands, what im saying is that they should be made with elitist supply. in THAT sense, we (as in we the artists) regulate elitist supply (e.g. not having these well-drawn realistic guns because they're realistic, or they look too much like an AK/M16/whatever). this is all under the assumption of an elitist balance between a realistic supply and a futuristic supply.
the polls are elitistic because the generic DARK CLAN member doesnt know about it, they already are made with elitist supply, the bad guns simply dont get in and theyre not made by the elite
but i disagree with the elitism of yours a lot, its like "i think X is good so everybody must think it also is", why is your opinion of balance better than the opinion of a DARK CLAN member? both could be able to exist together, thats what i am proposing, Eric can take out what doesnt fit, or maybe even the poll does it, as you said, the predetermined demand is not a problem, and this kind of mentality is what kills games, people want potatos and the USSR gives them rice, people are unhappy, they are less effective
in this case the kids want generic guns, they dont get them, they leave, they cannot evolve into the elite, its like minimum wage killing opportunities(wont go deep into it)
a thing that you are ignoring and you shouldnt is practice, lets say its all like you proposed by the polls, again, they might not get used, why have 10 realistic guns and 10 futuristic guns if only the realistic will be used? in practice it will always be supply and demand, and you cannot assume it at all, maybe someone wants to create a literal USSR map on PB2 and then boom no AK-47 or AK-74 etc, this is what kills opportunity too, the more supply, more variables for the population to generate new ideas too
Roxxar wrote:its kinda like a proletariat/bourgeoisie relationship, where the bourgeoisie are the artists and the proletariat is the rest of the community (from a skill/power perspective, the roles would be flipped; however this is coming from a role perspective). not that im stemming my argument from the communist manifesto to call for an uprising or anything, but we the artists already control the supply/polls. we just need to recognize it and practice it after realizing this standard of balance (most importantly) and quality. i think you agree that there does need to be a sort of balance at least. i think ultimately, the problem stems from how you see the lack of balance as not a problem, and that i do.
most of it wasnt written on the communist manifesto yet das kapital
i am agaisnt this elitistic view, so let me explain you what deliciously exquisite pizza sauce up economics
ELITISM, here is a cool example of what generates economical crisis in real life:
1 - people want X and Y for the same thing, depending on their class(you as the one that wants futuristic guns, while the COD kid wants realistic guns) a good example in real life is effectiveness of public medical system or social security
2 - government doesnt like Y, they go in and create X
3 - it generates a problem which is that people dont get what they want, in PB2s case they leave, in real life, they just stop giving a deliciously exquisite pizza sauce, they go illegal, they are unhappy which makes them less effective, etc
a better example are drugs
1 - PEOPLE WANT DRUGS, some dont
2 - the ones that dont elect a fancy candidate via democracy instead of free market to set some arbitrary rules
3 - people who want drugs get no drugs
4 - traffic, war, violence!
5 - the fancy candidate creates a method of solving that which is sending police forces to kill them and die
6 - "works"
it generates more conflict than solves it, people who want drugs can do their own thing and those who dont can also do their own thing
actually since this is literally economics right now, unsure if you read, but a few interesting books on said topics, by different authors:
marx: das kapital(the 3 volumes are good)
keynes(seems to be the closest to what you defend): the general theory of employment interest and money
rothbard: man, economy and state
bawerk: capital and interest
milton friedman(he has a lot of nice stuff): milton friedman a theory of the consumption function
not that many modern authors because thinks like the MMT makes no sense
so what happens here is that you ahve an elitist opinion which you want to impose over others, i want to let people do their own thing, youre excluding others, i am not
its the same thing that jason eden did actually, but he wanted the game to be extremely realistic
AND BOTH CAN GO ALONG IF NOBODY IMPOSES THEIR PREFERENCES OVER OTHERS
not like you cant walk around saying "i like X and Y sucks" but the way youre doing it is trying to solve YOUR problems becuase its not a problem in the general way
balance can be achieved, and it will if the MAJORITY LIKES THINGS, it will be a failure if that doesnt happen
also if there are no artists making futuristic guns that means the demand is low, its like "we don't have bakers because nobody wants bread" its the same thing, someone will be like "YO I REALLY LIKE BREAD LET ME MAKE THAT" and if others like that, all fine
your guns did get into the game, the majority prefered the realistic stuff, they got in, now the opinions have changed, people prefer the more futuristic ones, let that be, in the future it will balance out again, think long term not short term
if you think it could generate a crisis like 1929 it wasnt caused by excessive demand that is the keynesian version of it, mises is a economsit that was alive at the time and he predicted the crisis, keynes did not
(read the causes of economic crisis and other essays by him)
Roxxar wrote:i do think the problem is the supply (or at the very least, lack of demand due to lack of creativity). i remember a couple quotes (not to go pro-motivation or innovation or anything) from several different entrepreneurs saying that if they wanted better transportation, they would have bred faster horses instead of making cars. if they wanted better communications, they would have implemented whole keyboards on phones rather than make an adaptive touch-screen.
SOMEONE JUST HAS TO HAVE A GOOD IDEA, and it happens, ford had a good idea, zuckerberg, steve jobs, bill gates, we need smart people, the more demand for something that doesnt exist the most likely someone will try to solve said problems with creativity!
again both dont exclude each other, people need to think long term, and the fact that everybody uses X makes so those who focus on Y will be much better when Y achieves a level near of X, this is happening with solar panels and electric cars, mostly coming from private initiative, while well, take a look at the USSR and how centralized stuff dealt with innovation... they actually failed a lot and copied a lot, though bad people did a good job and they were centralized
the real better transportation is the one adapted for what the specific market wants, you wont transport things from america to europe with a car, that is why boats exist, now if you want to transport delicate stuff, go on a more fancy boat that is secure, you want some ore countainers? well, there are big boats for that
that could happen in PB2, the balance thing i was talking about earlier can actually even be ignored if you think about it, if there is no equivalent of a alien rifle, people wont use alien rifles versus CS stuff, so it either becomes symetrical maps that are not a problem imo, or someone creates it if they really want to, problem is that in PB2 we cannot just create and submit things, its not a constant process, fixing that fixes everything
Roxxar wrote:it's this kind of "innovation" and artist "balance" that i'd like to see. sure we could use healthier and faster horses like in equestrian, but lets not forget the cars that drive us today. sure we could use bigger and more comfortable keyboards like with mechanical keyboards, but lets not forget the touchscreens we have in [most of] our pockets today.
i like how you assume that a more free-market view keeps the same things, what happens is that, once ford realizes he can sell his own cars to his workers instead of the elite, it all goes fine, and that is what happened
AGAIN IT DOES NOT EXCLUDE CREATIVITY OR FUTURISTIC WEAPONRY IF REALISTIC GENERIC ONES EXISTRoxxar wrote:tl;dr - this is really long. i agree with most of what you say, so lets skip most of the semantics/figurative language and get back down to supply vs demand of fanart. i think there's too high of a supply to meet this predetermined demand, and its the artists fault for that. the consequences of this high supply is like an exponential effect, in which (on an extreme scale) we basically turn this into 2D cod/battlefield and forget that the futuristic pb2 exists. we'll all be so pent up with creating csgo's dust 2 or mw2's rust/terminal that we'll forget the stryde-sniper or egrw that makes the game's multiplayer so easily adaptable and likable.
it will still be there, if people forget about it, then there is no need of it
WE ALL SHOULD GO BACK TO PLAYING WARCRAFT 3 BECAUSE I LIKE IT! MOBAS ARE ALL BAD!
for real read the economics books i suggested, this is literally the debate over regulated or free market, im not the biggest genius of economics but im pretty sure the people i mentioned are, also no adam smith because what he says is too obvious and keep in mind if you actually read that stuff that marx uses adam smith's objective price theory as his base, same does keynes but for different things
ALSO THE ONLY THEORY THAT CONSTANTLY IS ABLE TO GUESS WHEN CRISIS ARE GOING TO HAPPEN(period, not exact dates cuz that is impossible) ARE AUSTIRANS AND THEYRE BETTER THAN CHICAGO BOYS BECAUSE THE GOLD-DOLAR PROBLEM THEY HAD WITH THE END OF BRETTON-WOODS!
youre prob not going to read all of that
this is actually getting big