Removal of 1 star voting damage?

General Discussion related to the Plazma Burst game series.

Do you agree on removing LDr. getting damaged by rating 1 star?

1. Yes.
6
24%
2. No.
19
76%
 
Total votes : 25

Removal of 1 star voting damage?

Postby Lance Ryder Wilson » 8 May 2019, 19:35

Well, I have never seen anyone using negative voting in an honest way even if I did, it was rare, two users have voted 1 star on a map where I have worked on for like 2 months. The reason that they had was, they hate me.

Now you will say ask staff to remove them, I have reported to Admin (DoomZerker), [Previous] Head Moderator (Zap) and Moderator (Protonoid), and no action was taken. Zap and Protonoid responded, they said that can't do anything, ask an Admin, Admins won't do anything.

These votes have freezed my LDr., and this needs to be removed.
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Re: Removal of 1 star voting damage?

Postby ECC9 » 8 May 2019, 19:43

I dont think this is fair to everyone who have a map and to the ones who rate maps 1. You can't be 100% sure bout it being honest when someone rates your map/s 1. Because you worked your maps 2 months the 1 start vote must count as well.

I feel like you are seeing only your benefits wtih this idea and you should see all the pb2 community.
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Re: Removal of 1 star voting damage?

Postby Resi » 8 May 2019, 20:16

LDR is worthless, you shouldn't care about it.

If you have decisive evidence someone ragevoted your map, they will be banned and you may have the rating changed.

Also: People don't care about how long you spend on your time map, they care about how much they enjoy it.
phsc wrote:WHY ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT REALISM IN A FUTURISTIC 2D FLASH SCROLL SHOOTER THAT HAS ALIENS AND UNREALISTIC UNHOLDABLE GUNS AND REGENERATION AND MANY OTHER THINGS, LOSTMYDOLLAR/JASON EDEN PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT A REALISTIC GAME AND STOP TRYING TO TURN IT INTO ONE BECAUSE IT WONT
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Re: Removal of 1 star voting damage?

Postby Lance Ryder Wilson » 8 May 2019, 22:36

ECC9 wrote:I feel like you are seeing only your benefits wtih this idea and you should see all the pb2 community.


I am not suggesting just because it happened to me, k?

My friend's LDr got damaged because Some trolls rated 1.

And You clearly misunderstood, I meant that rating 1 should not damage the creator's LDr that's all.

Resi wrote:LDR is worthless, you shouldn't care about it.


Okay? You find it worthless, I don't.

Resi wrote:If you have decisive evidence someone ragevoted your map, they will be banned and you may have the rating changed.


Staff didn't do anything, they either told me to talk to a higher or didn't respond.
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Re: Removal of 1 star voting damage?

Postby ECC9 » 8 May 2019, 22:43

I know what you mean.

Then your friends, or you, it's makes no sense lol.
If 1 star shouldn't damage ldr then there wouldn't be a rating system lol. Because 1 doesn't count its totally bullshit.
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Re: Removal of 1 star voting damage?

Postby phsc » 8 May 2019, 23:18

Well, I have never seen anyone using negative voting in an honest way even if I did, it was rare

I've never seen a bear in my life, that means bears dont exist, got to love empiricism
but ok I mean you did see a bear like, at rare times! uh...

What defines honesty? there are maps that are complete trash, robloxplazmaalen_yt-sniper, please tell me that map isnt worth a 1 star rating, I voted high for ironic reasons, so people do vote for honest reasons, but what makes wanting to use sarcasm not honest? it is the purest of my thoughts, how do you know others are lying? can you literally read their minds with psychic powers? even then, what if someone truly thinks a map is worth 1 because the CRITERIA THEY VOTE IS DIFFERENT, lets say I want to get in PB2 and play a map that is fun, I want it to be fun, and then the map is a bunch of complicated triggering with bunch of amazing extreme-detailed decorations, in that persons view, it is not what that person wants and thus that person rates 1, also the fact that those who are ignorant in map making many times don't know how to make a complex map, and people can be used to different map styles, maybe people like chairs that are bigger than the character or some like ones that perfectly fit, if one likes a bigger one he is going to think a smaller one is bad, it is like someone who listens to indian classical music and then listens to mumble rap, the persons taste is different, and even then, what does honesty change? let's say we all believe that 2+2 is 5, if someone who believes 2+2 is also 5 for some reasons says its 4, that person isn't being honest, but that person is right, but even then in this case it is beauty and it isn't objective, read Hegel on it.

two users have voted 1 star on a map where I have worked on for like 2 months.

Time does not mean quality, I can spend 24 hours for two years adding walls to a map, is it good?
It's like saying that someone who spends 2 hours making something is better than someone who spends 1 hour making it, what matters is the result not the process, the process only matters if we are going to take efficiency as the method but in art it tends not to be considered as much unless let's say you join PB2s map making contest but you take 6 months to make a map, in theory if the map isn't even that good and you spent 2 months on it it can even be bad, it can indicate that you're not effective and in a general way incompetent.

The reason that they had was, they hate me.

Well, what if that is not the main reason? what if the map is bad? and why doesn't ethos matter? it's like, I will use a example used a lot in the guitar world, Yngwie Malmsteen, the dude is really virtuous in his playing, but he is a complete d-bag, people say he is bad because of that, and why cannot they say it? what is art? art is the experience, if there is a negative thing to the experience, it is worse, like someone coughing a lot in a classical concert that is supposed to be quiet, it makes it worse, why doesn't the experience the existance of a person affect it? if someone is really ugly, wouldn't it disgust you? like extremely, that affects the experience, if someone I hate makes something bad I will rate low because I want that person to be bad probably because that person made me feel bad or because I'm like sadistic or something, if someone I hate makes something good, and that person gave me a bad experience, fairness will kick in and I want to give said person a bad experience, that is how most people's mind works.

Now you will say ask staff to remove them, I have reported to Admin (DoomZerker), [Previous] Head Moderator (Zap) and Moderator (Protonoid), and no action was taken.

Why is that staff work? is there anything on the rules that mentions it? when it is a massive 1 star spam it is obvious it is intentional, but if it is a single map, deal with it.

Zap and Protonoid responded, they said that can't do anything, ask an Admin

Well they're not admins so probably they don't have the rights to edit that kind of stuff.

Admins won't do anything.

What admins? did you consider they have time? is there anything that says they must?

These votes have freezed my LDr.

Cool, I wouldn't care about some double in a database that is converted to a string and then appears on my screen, nobody cares about LDR, it means nothing, many bad map makers have high LDR, it is about popularity not quality, mapmakers such as Mrnat, Ditzy and Hexagon are all extremely low on it, and I don't walk around demanding them to be higher, because LDR is based on quantity not quality and even then quality is subjective but won't get into that, LDR is much more affected by the big masses, think of it as pop music compared to classical music, it does not mean pop music is bad, or that classical music is good, it means that they both serve different purposes and supply and demand does the rest.

and this needs to be removed.

"I dislike A, thus A should be removed"
Logical examples:
Hitler: I dislike jews, so jews must be removed.
Me: I dislike everybody on earth, so they all must be removed.
Random person: I dislike Lance Ryder Wilson, so he must be removed.

Opinions are subjective, they won't achieve anything, with such poor backing even worse, you need to learn how to deal with things you deslike unless the vast majority of people dislike so the real democracy called supply and demand kicks in and does the job, that is how true ethics are defined, prices, etc, you can even make an argument that it is literally darwinism, survival of the fittest, and in this case you are not fit.
In my opinion what happens here is that you're quite a spoiled elitistic being.


I agree with most that has been said by others in this post, I will comment on what else you said.

I am not suggesting just because it happened to me, k?

Other cases? examples? actual facts? and you are suggesting it because it happened with you, it is obvious, the main topic of the post is that.

My friend's LDr got damaged because Some trolls rated 1.

What trolls, what friend, what maps(his and yours), how do you know they are trolls and not people who are just voting 1 for any reason at all?

And You clearly misunderstood, I meant that rating 1 should not damage the creator's LDr that's all.

Rates of 1 shouldn't damage the LDR
"Guns shouldn't have real bullets"
It kills the function of 1 rates, it kills the function of a gun! it is removing its use, it is like "let's remove balls from soccer", how do you even play soccer without a ball?

I guess my opinion on this topic is quite obvious already.
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Re: Removal of 1 star voting damage?

Postby Resi » 8 May 2019, 23:27

Lance Ryder Wilson wrote:
Resi wrote:LDR is worthless, you shouldn't care about it.

Okay? You find it worthless, I don't.


I don't find it worthless. It IS worthless. You don't get absolutely anything from a high number in your profile.

If you care about fame or something, the concurrent amount of users online in PB2 is less than 150. There isn't anything famous about it.

Map making is about expressing your creativity and having fun, and the first step to this is not caring about LDR. Caring about LDR will make you unpublish your maps just because they didn't get 26 votes, which will just send your efforts into the trash due to your way of thinking.
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Re: Removal of 1 star voting damage?

Postby BLAST3R » 9 May 2019, 12:18

What do you win with ldr? Does Max teabag get a salary of 500$ a month for being the mapmaker with the most LDR?
Of course not. And if you're talking about the fame that you get for having a high ldr, its a 2d dead flash game for god's sake. If you're going to get this offended by someone voing your map 1 star than stop mapmaking in the first place.
Nobody is forced to like your maps, working 2 months on it does not mean it is good. And if they are ragevoting because they don't like you than you gotta live with it.

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Re: Removal of 1 star voting damage?

Postby mrblake213 » 9 May 2019, 13:37

I do understand where Lance is saying though.
I mean at first I was really careful and passionate in maintaining my LDr and climbing up the leaderboards. When I have a map that reduces my rank, I either delete it or unpublish it so that my rank would still be maintained. But these days, I noticed that it only reduces my potential to create and express new and unique maps which is why I decided to actually just let things flow.

With all this, I don't agree with the removal of the 1 star voting because there are still some honest people who would rate maps with a star because it's the highest they can give for that specific map. Rating was always and will be subjective.

You can always report people who rage vote (a person who rates a lot of your maps with 1 star) then get them banned.
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Re: Removal of 1 star voting damage?

Postby Cliduff » 9 May 2019, 20:29

Let me tell you that most times, fame is bad

I would not be bothering doing a post like this for something that is already considered normal in plazma burst 2, I understand that it is annoying that you put 1 star on a map of yours that you strived to do. the admins are not Eric Gurt and you have to accept it. This is like if you were asking youtube to remove the Dislike button

Why Billie Eilish considers fame a disgust? Because fame is not good

So worrying about losing your LDR because someone voted 1 star sounds stupid.
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Re: Removal of 1 star voting damage?

Postby Lance Ryder Wilson » 10 May 2019, 07:48

mrblake213 wrote:You can always report people who rage vote (a person who rates a lot of your maps with 1 star) then get them banned.


Apparently I did not make myself clear before.

Staff did NOT do anything, I even reported it to many staff members.

Cliduff wrote:This is like if you were asking youtube to remove the Dislike button

Why Billie Eilish considers fame a disgust? Because fame is not good


Completely and totally irrelevant.

ECC9 and Wazzasski rate one and got away, Wazzasski Even told other users to rated 1 to destroy my LDr(I even have proof). and staff did not even do anything, that's my point. Either staff take action or this system needs to be removed.

BLAST3R wrote:What do you win with ldr? Does Max teabag get a salary of 500$ a month for being the mapmaker with the most LDR?
Of course not.


Okay, the answer is simple. I want to get in best custom Level Developer List.

BLAST3R wrote:And if you're talking about the fame that you get for having a high ldr, its a 2d dead flash game for god's sake. If you're going to get this offended by someone vo[t]ing your map 1 star than stop mapmaking in the first place.


I do not care if it is a dead game or an alive game, It is a game. And don't tell me to stop mapmaking, I am not going to.

BLAST3R wrote:Nobody is forced to like your maps,


Okay? When did I said I forced people to like them? They can vote 1, but at least have a logical reason to.

BLAST3R wrote:And if they are ragevoting because they don't like you [then] you gotta live with it.


So, you mean that, I should watch them rage voting 1, when I have put a lot of effort into my new maps.

Sorry if I came across rude or disrespectful. :sorry:
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Re: Removal of 1 star voting damage?

Postby KIRIAKOS GR96 » 10 May 2019, 10:47

Sorry but i'm against this idea.
If a player abuse the map rating system report it with proof to us.
I take a look at your map votes and i did not see anything unusual remember 1 or 2 rates its not abuse.
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Re: Removal of 1 star voting damage?

Postby Resi » 10 May 2019, 13:21

This thread is just gonna end dramatic, so you should probably DM Kiri in discord with the proof. Kiri is probably the nicest person in the entire staff team, and although he doesn't have much time, he's there when he can.

If the staff haven't done anything, try again.
phsc wrote:WHY ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT REALISM IN A FUTURISTIC 2D FLASH SCROLL SHOOTER THAT HAS ALIENS AND UNREALISTIC UNHOLDABLE GUNS AND REGENERATION AND MANY OTHER THINGS, LOSTMYDOLLAR/JASON EDEN PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT A REALISTIC GAME AND STOP TRYING TO TURN IT INTO ONE BECAUSE IT WONT
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Re: Removal of 1 star voting damage?

Postby MLG COOL DOMINIK » 10 May 2019, 14:44

Resi wrote:This thread is just gonna end dramatic, so you should probably DM Kiri in discord with the proof. Kiri is probably the nicest person in the entire staff team, and although he doesn't have much time, he's there when he can.

If the staff haven't done anything, try again.

Actually he should show the proof to everybody so we can actually believe him.
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Re: Removal of 1 star voting damage?

Postby mrblake213 » 10 May 2019, 14:47

Lance Ryder Wilson wrote:Apparently I did not make myself clear before.

Staff did NOT do anything, I even reported it to many staff members.


KIRIAKOS GR96 wrote:Sorry but i'm against this idea.
If a player abuse the map rating system report it with proof to us.
I take a look at your map votes and i did not see anything unusual remember 1 or 2 rates its not abuse.


So this basically answered your question. It's not that staff won't answer your report. It's because they find your report as invalid and doesn't break the Code of Conduct.
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Re: Removal of 1 star voting damage?

Postby Resi » 10 May 2019, 17:57

MLG COOL DOMINIK wrote:
Resi wrote:This thread is just gonna end dramatic, so you should probably DM Kiri in discord with the proof. Kiri is probably the nicest person in the entire staff team, and although he doesn't have much time, he's there when he can.

If the staff haven't done anything, try again.

Actually he should show the proof to everybody so we can actually believe him.


Not a good idea. If I show everyone proof of someone being a jerk, i'll just create drama and witch hunting. Even if they deserve it, maybe.
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Re: Removal of 1 star voting damage?

Postby WolfMaster12 » 10 May 2019, 18:57

LDr is objectively useless and worthless. You don't need it. You can't brag with it. You can't do anything with it.

And frankly, if you chase LDr in mapmaking, then something has gone wrong with your thinking.

Rage-voting exists. It's a form of rage, typically produced by raging little brats who you killed once in retaliation in a random base map you can't remember. Many other games have raging brats in other forms. You can't get rid of them. You have to live with them, in harmony or not.

You ask me, 1-star votes should still count. We can't be all positive about maps. Sometimes, a map is shitty. 1-star voting reminds them/us of that, and then they/we can potentially strive for higher quality and/or enjoyability. And a rage-voter can be reported with proof. DM it to a staff member in Discord.

The main point of making maps is to unleash your creativity, to have fun with building something. The main rule of such things is that you can enjoy doing something like this. If you are bothered by rage-voting, 1-star rating for any other reason or the loss of your LDr, then you can't enjoy it. It's that simple.
More cheese for the sir over here!
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Re: Removal of 1 star voting damage?

Postby Cliduff » 10 May 2019, 21:11

WolfMaster12 wrote:LDr is objectively useless and worthless. You don't need it. You can't brag with it. You can't do anything with it.

And frankly, if you chase LDr in mapmaking, then something has gone wrong with your thinking.

Rage-voting exists. It's a form of rage, typically produced by raging little brats who you killed once in retaliation in a random base map you can't remember. Many other games have raging brats in other forms. You can't get rid of them. You have to live with them, in harmony or not.

You ask me, 1-star votes should still count. We can't be all positive about maps. Sometimes, a map is shitty. 1-star voting reminds them/us of that, and then they/we can potentially strive for higher quality and/or enjoyability. And a rage-voter can be reported with proof. DM it to a staff member in Discord.

The main point of making maps is to unleash your creativity, to have fun with building something. The main rule of such things is that you can enjoy doing something like this. If you are bothered by rage-voting, 1-star rating for any other reason or the loss of your LDr, then you can't enjoy it. It's that simple.


Exactly
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Re: Removal of 1 star voting damage?

Postby ECC9 » 10 May 2019, 22:39

For example If "we" rate your maps 1 and don't comment that doesn't means we don't have a reason.

We have the right to comment it or not :p
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Re: Removal of 1 star voting damage?

Postby phsc » 11 May 2019, 00:33

JESUS deliciously exquisite pizza sauce CHRIST PEOPLE deliciously exquisite pizza sauce THINK

ok first of all, VALUE IS SUBJECTIVE, just because you think SOMETHING IS WORTH SOMETHING or WORTH NOTHING IT MEANS NOTHING, read what I've said, THE PROBLEM IS NOT LDR YET THAT THE IDEA IS deliciously exquisite pizza sauce TERRIBLE.

Let me refute some people here, or general concepts:
A LOT OF PEOPLE wrote:WHERE IS THE PROOF!

We get into a big problem with this mentality because there is no definition of what is proof in PB2, and lets say someone has two maps, I dislike said person thus I rate 1 on his 2 maps, the value is low, maybe the maps are actually bad, bad and good is subjective, whoever is going to see if it is breaking the rules or not is going to make a ARBITRARY DECISION WHICH HAS MANY OTHER FACTORS SUCH AS BIAS TO BE CONSIDERED, and that is terrible, of course past history might help but what if said person has changed but considers both maps really terrible in his subjective view?

ALMOST EVERYBODY wrote:LDR IS USELESS!

IN YOUR OPINION!!! if someone cares about strings of text let said person care, it is his opinion and you can consider it dumb, but people can like and dislike or put value into anything, how much would you pay to literally eat shit? probably you wouldn't, now what if you have a scat fetish? that is an extreme example but minimal things change, because people are different.

WolfMaster12 wrote:LDr is objectively useless and worthless. You don't need it. You can't brag with it. You can't do anything with it.

IT IS NOT OBJECTIVELY USELESS AND WORTHLESS USE IS SUBJECTIVE AND VALUE IS SUBJECTIVE PLEASE IF YOU DISAGREE REFUTE JEVONS MENGER MISES HOPPE maybe even David Ricardo, that is the biggest problem with our modern society and it's mentality.

USE IS ALSO SUBJECTIVE, first of all you're being extremely arrogant and considering yourself superior to others because you assume that you know everything possible to do with a thing, now just with the current information it is possible to refute you, LDR can be worth something, and here is a simple example:
-Dude who made this topic thinks LDR has value.
-Probably there are more people in this game who think it has value, but let's take only him.
-One could trade a really high LDR account with him, if he really wants a high LDR account, or someone else.
That is just a simple example, if you read The Fatal Conceit by Friedrich Hayek you will understand what I'm saying and how this kind of mentality is extremely cancerous.

WolfMaster12 wrote:And frankly, if you chase LDr in mapmaking, then something has gone wrong with your thinking.

If you prefer red over blue, then something has gone wrong with your thinking.
I guess I already explained that this is completely subjective, the reasons people do things are completely different, a good example is getting academic prestige, some do it because of money, some do it because they want to show off, some do it because they like it, some do it for fame, and many do it for a infinite amount of reasons, small examples that might be stupid to you but for others it might not is, let's say someone's parents wants that person to get academical prestige, maybe the person will do it just to make their parents happy, etc.

WolfMaster12 wrote:Rage-voting exists. It's a form of rage, typically produced by raging little brats who you killed once in retaliation in a random base map you can't remember. Many other games have raging brats in other forms. You can't get rid of them. You have to live with them, in harmony or not.

Not always rage, the name is bad, it should be "votes which don't fit in what I consider valid", such as not liking someone, it is also subjective buuut it is in PB2s completely arbitrary rules that generate more conflict than resolves it, it is not always rage, it can be the opposite, semi-sadistic people who know that someone will get angry if they rate 1 on their maps so they do it so that person makes a forum post on the topic, oh wait what just happened?

WolfMaster12 wrote:You ask me, 1-star votes should still count. We can't be all positive about maps. Sometimes, a map is shitty. 1-star voting reminds them/us of that, and then they/we can potentially strive for higher quality and/or enjoyability. And a rage-voter can be reported with proof. DM it to a staff member in Discord.
WHAT IS PROOF FOR RAGE VOTING? many 1 star votes? will staff bother to check all maps to arbitrary see if they are bad, and will they ask for the peoples opinion? for sure not, but well it is the problem with this game in a general way.

WolfMaster12 wrote:The main point of making maps is to unleash your creativity, to have fun with building something. The main rule of such things is that you can enjoy doing something like this. If you are bothered by rage-voting, 1-star rating for any other reason or the loss of your LDr, then you can't enjoy it. It's that simple.

It is not that simple as I mentioned it is completely subjective, it is not to unleash your creativity - THAT IS YOUR OPINION - people can do anything for any reason they subjectively find valid because reality itself is, and if you disagree with me then refute Descartes, Spinoza, Leibniz, Kant and many others, he can enjoy it in other ways by achieving his goals: Human Action by Mises.

Now if you disagree please refute me.
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