[EDIT REQUEST] x death-realwar

Approved Map Edit Requests

[EDIT REQUEST] x death-realwar

Postby Star Fox McCloud » 29 November 2017, 21:56

[A]
- I have read and understand fully the Required Reading for posting an Approved Map Edit Request: YES
- I have read and understand fully the Approved Map Edit Request rules: YES
- I have confirmed that this map is currently approved: YES

[B]
- Map Name: ORIGINAL Realwar (v1.0)
- Map ID: x death-realwar
- Link to Map Page: http://www.plazmaburst2.com/index.php?s ... &id=143536
- Link to Map Demo: http://www.plazmaburst2.com/index.php?s ... th-realwar

[C]
- Do you think this map need a minor edit, or a major overhaul?: Yes
- In a few words, why is an edit required?: major farming issue, and lag.
- In detail, what exactly is wrong with the map, and what exactly needs to be edited?: Players keep trying to abuse the teleporter and try to keep switching places each second while spamming bullets. Being nearly invinsible. So I need the teleporter removed and the map reverted to Coop version. While the tdm/dm version of the map gets deleted, so less lag is present.


- Any other comments: With no teleporter, players will see it harder to farm.

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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] x death-realwar

Postby Krutz » 29 November 2017, 23:31

lul the map is laggy because of 8v8 not because of a few extra walls

the teleportation system for deathmatch mode is a good addition to a linear map like this as it effectively makes its lane infinite rather than a dead end eventually—so your point that someone can "abuse" the teleportation is not enough for it to be removed

its too vital of a feature to be easily deleted like that

the teleportation system can be edited slightly so that the destination point is not near the entry point so that your point is negated

despite that, i dont see why this map is approved because its gameplay in coop is literally call a window and hold down your left mouse button toward a lake

the map promotes no dynamic gameplay and doesnt reward attempts to press an advantage... i dont see how thats interesting
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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] x death-realwar

Postby Stryde » 30 November 2017, 00:14

Star Fox McCloud wrote:- In a few words, why is an edit required?: major farming issue, and lag.
- In detail, what exactly is wrong with the map, and what exactly needs to be edited?: Players keep trying to abuse the teleporter and try to keep switching places each second while spamming bullets. Being nearly invinsible. So I need the teleporter removed and the map reverted to Coop version. While the tdm/dm version of the map gets deleted, so less lag is present.


- Any other comments: With no teleporter, players will see it harder to farm.


For starters, lag is subjective and is different for everyone. For instance, you may have a potato computer, and can't play any maps. I may have an alienware supercomputer that can run any game I please. Second, lag is not dependent on gamemode.

COOP matches for X death-realwar already take the 5+ minutes for rounds to end because everyone sits in their respective towers and sprays down at the water (middle of map). The grenades that were added do not help whatsoever, and neither will adding shield grenades. If everyone is spraying towards the water and you deploy a shield grenade, chances are it won't last more than 5 seconds after being activated. Farming, camping, and spraying is still an issue in the COOP mode.

The TDM/DM version has an issue: people camping the teleporter, but at least people are moving across the map because it has an "endless" feel to it (that is, you can be on the left side of the map without walking through middle part, and vice versa).

The COOP version has an issue: rounds last forever because people camp in the towers and spray towards middle, and no one progresses across the map until people get tired and quit the game, and you need to traverse the left side to get to the right side of the map, and vice versa.

There will be no right answer for editing this map. It should either stay approved and left alone, or be unapproved because of the issues present based on the gamemode that the map is held in. However, one change that could possibly be made to reduce the lag in any map present would be to reduce the number of playing slots available from 16 players to 8 players, but this won't help remove the spraying, farming, and camping that is viable.

TLDR: No matter what mode this map is played in, there are obvious issues that can't be fixed from simply editing the map. TDM/DM has less issues than COOP does. Leave it approved as it is or unapprove it entirely.

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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] x death-realwar

Postby Silent Aurora » 30 November 2017, 02:08

I just want to add onto what Stryde said regarding the teleport area.

Not sure if this is fixed or not but in the past, people could just self-boost at the right spot to miss the region which activates the trigger to teleporting them. This results in them being on the other side so they can just camp there and spam endlessly.

Even if it's fixed, it doesn't solve the problem that it lacks any sort of timer since people can just spam "a" and "d" to teleport from side to side quickly while spamming. The grenades don't help either to stop this kind of campfest.
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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] x death-realwar

Postby Star Fox McCloud » 30 November 2017, 02:30

An endless map with a title "Real" in it lol

players who have potato computers and have the worst internet cant play competitive. this map is like a handicap.

anyway I do not mean make the map only COOP mode. I mean, revert the map to what it was in 2011 with no teleporters, it can still be played in tdm and dm. If you camp right by the wall at the ends of the map, you die easily. so you must blow players out the way by fighting with force.

@krutz wait...so max teabag said on another map topic about Walls slowing down performance, even map makers mentioned this. even with 4v4, the map still lags because there are walls available "2 maps"

Plus this map is like roleplaying, plus base to base fight. 30+ minutes will 16 player full match mostly happen on this map which is great for activity! Farming in coop? it takes at least an hour to get 44 kills in coop.

Well, spraying is the last thing players with bad internet and PC's can do, since all other maps have platforms and tryhards. with an open mind, that can be seen. If this gets unapproved, players who arent able to play other maps may drop out from multiplayer, which will result in unranked being nearly empty/dead just as ranked. I am sure eric knows this since he approved it again.

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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] x death-realwar

Postby KIRIAKOS GR96 » 30 November 2017, 02:40

For the teleport part i would suggest a timer like 2 secs cd and also the area around the teleports a damaging pusher with low power just to prevent the cambers to regain hp.

also with this trigger action this map does not need to have 2 versions but only 1 with this trigger that will activate the teleport trigger only in dm or tdm games but not in coop (and the teleport will be sealed with a door) with this way the map will lag less and it will load faster.
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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] x death-realwar

Postby Stryde » 30 November 2017, 15:35

Here's proof that people literally just spray from towers in any mode you're in on this map






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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] x death-realwar

Postby Star Fox McCloud » 30 November 2017, 15:50

Like I said, its the last resort/handicap for players who can't even play other maps with platforms/competitive/tryhards. Why do you think coop is the best mode and the most popular mode? Sides are even, its linear, you work with team mates "not selfishly ignoring them", not much skills required, you don't get called a lagger as much than in other maps. it has roleplaying which other maps dont have. If you see someone camp on a tower, get up and kill him/her either in tdm, coop or dm...
no other approved map can keep 10 players in one match for over 30 minutes

Also the match hosting numbers and votes shows it

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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] x death-realwar

Postby Stryde » 30 November 2017, 16:19

Star Fox McCloud wrote:If you see someone camp on a tower, get up and kill him/her either in tdm, coop or dm...


You do you expect a new player to be able to do this if they don't know how to selfboost and the person camping is spraying at them for over 4 minutes, dragging out the round?

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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] x death-realwar

Postby Star Fox McCloud » 30 November 2017, 16:33

In 2011 it did not bother us. I instantly became good by playing and watching other players. if minutes per round is short, the map dies. If the map holds 16 players for many minutes, that means players are patient and the map has good activity, plus it takes long to get many kills, preventing fast farming. New players don't need to selfboost. Shoot up, talk to team mates, and they help take down the campers. it prevents players from being self absorbed going in for kills by themselves. Selfboosters just blindly go in the middle and die, which is what he/she gets for not caring about team mates. new players like the map for that, and keep playing pb2 because of that. Imagine this map as the "beginners" map for new players.

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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] x death-realwar

Postby Krutz » 30 November 2017, 20:26

i never denied that walls decrease client performance... i said that in comparison to 8 extra sets of guns and 8 possible extra moving players, its not a problem

so youre saying that this map is a resort for "players with bad internet and who dont want to tryhard"? if they dont want to play competitively, dont play in ranked competitive matches

and youre acting like this map just disappears if its unapproved

maps that are conceptually similar to this map are innately tough to work out if you actually want to create an interesting, as-skill-based-as-possible, and attractive map

so if youre going to make a map with two towers and a puddle in the middle, its not going to be the epitome of skill-expression for competitive players
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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] x death-realwar

Postby Star Fox McCloud » 2 December 2017, 17:42

Krutz wrote:i never denied that walls decrease client performance... i said that in comparison to 8 extra sets of guns and 8 possible extra moving players, its not a problem

so youre saying that this map is a resort for "players with bad internet and who dont want to tryhard"? if they dont want to play competitively, dont play in ranked competitive matches

and youre acting like this map just disappears if its unapproved

maps that are conceptually similar to this map are innately tough to work out if you actually want to create an interesting, as-skill-based-as-possible, and attractive map

so if youre going to make a map with two towers and a puddle in the middle, its not going to be the epitome of skill-expression for competitive players


Of course it disappears if unapproved..

We need skill based attractive maps but map makers say that 85% of approved maps are trash lul. This map still has more popularity than the other realwar maps with concepts combined.

So if realwar isn't attractive, why is it played so much in unranked and the map that lasts the longest hm?

Do you expect players who lag that can barely even WALK to play competitive? Or having desperate tryhards kill them til they leave? I also meant UNRANKED matches. I also like how you use "skill and competitive" but in egrw1 selfboosting is hard, so you wanted to make it easier for new players so eric had to make a handicap wall.

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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] x death-realwar

Postby Star Fox McCloud » 6 December 2017, 17:31

the map has been edited, with new guns!

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