lrv wrote:And if it puts the players in a cut off room without weapons and swords and tells them via a hint this map can only be played in Coop for example?
lrv wrote:And what is exactly the problem with people having to rejoin in a new match and the trigger message only being activated once the game starts?
Also I don't think kicking players by trigger is necessary. A simple hint message and a killproof room would do.
nightmar wrote:what if we can make the map force all players to leave if it is in the wrong gamemode? For example the map will notice which gamode it is that it is played at and if it is not the correct it will execute a trigger that will kick out players.
Stryde wrote:nightmar wrote:what if we can make the map force all players to leave if it is in the wrong gamemode? For example the map will notice which gamode it is that it is played at and if it is not the correct it will execute a trigger that will kick out players.
Literally go read my last post talking about how the order of events matters. The map lobby still must be generated before any triggers are used.
Stryde wrote:Furthermore, killproof rooms are not possible due to the fact that in approved maps, the game is hardwired to respawn certain slot weapons (I know at least slot 2, 4, 6) when players connect. This is also a requirement with all new approved maps and this is done with e-marks, which are not gamemode-specific. Basically, anytime you host an approved map, YOU WILL spawn with a weapon. There is a reason why this is a specific requirement and has been maintained after the approval requirements have been re-written.
nightmar wrote:Stryde wrote:nightmar wrote:what if we can make the map force all players to leave if it is in the wrong gamemode? For example the map will notice which gamode it is that it is played at and if it is not the correct it will execute a trigger that will kick out players.
Literally go read my last post talking about how the order of events matters. The map lobby still must be generated before any triggers are used.
Indeed the lobby can still be created, but if players are kicked out by the triggers as soon as they join they won't be able to fight. Therefore, they will be forced to play the map in the right gamemode.
lrv wrote:Stryde wrote:Furthermore, killproof rooms are not possible due to the fact that in approved maps, the game is hardwired to respawn certain slot weapons (I know at least slot 2, 4, 6) when players connect. This is also a requirement with all new approved maps and this is done with e-marks, which are not gamemode-specific. Basically, anytime you host an approved map, YOU WILL spawn with a weapon. There is a reason why this is a specific requirement and has been maintained after the approval requirements have been re-written.
Should be possible to get rid of the guns via triggers or teleport player far away from other players. However this requirement was NOT maintained. It was newly added. The outdated requirements in linked in the required reading post still endorse such methods.
But I do see how it can be annoying if many of the randomly created matches have to be redone.
lrv wrote:As you say approved maps should be unique, but this rule is a large hindering factor in that regard. It mostly only allows for a very small selection of health values, due to the fact they are the same for all three modes while these feature partially different physics, different loadout and require very different gameplay stiles.
lrv wrote:This also sets bigger restrictions for envirement, as it has to be symetrical or otherwise provide equal starting areas for Coop, allow players to move fairly easily anywhere in the map for DM and TDM.
lrv wrote:In General it boils down to three criteria which aren't influenced heavily enough by all modes to share a certain similarity on all maps with the last one having minimal effect on gameplay:
Weapons
Ineractable objects (teleports, gravitators etc.)
Aesthetics
lrv wrote:This does not allow for unique gameplay. It's the same tactics for every sniper map, for every shotgun map and basicly for all maps sharing similar weapons. Every map feels the same that way and does not provide any uniqueness gameplay wise whatsoever.
Nyove wrote:So you want approved maps with 300HP, 500HP and maybe even add in a 700HP? There's a reason why the health values are selected in a certain range.
Nyove wrote:Unique is not just about gameplay, it is about the entire overall theme of the map, including design. In a sense the approval rules should be strict and hinder most maps from being approved, because we only want the map with the best quality to made it to approval. You would not want average maps becoming approved right? We do this to provide the best maps to represent Plazma Burst 2.
Nyove wrote:There are approved maps that are asymmetrical, just check out kubakuba's maps.
https://www.plazmaburst2.com/?a=&s=7&ac ... id=1459065
Nyove wrote:I see what you mean, but adding too bizzare gameplay may be confusing to players. You have to try to innovate and think outside of the box to see if you can create something unique while keeping it simple. That's the challenging bit, and is the reason why most of the approved maps are made by map makers with a lot of experience.
Nyove wrote:If you still argue that the above four maps is not unique, then in a sense the game itself is too limiting for you. The argument of modfiying gameplay and using custom guns won't not work, because remember approved maps need to be designed to be competitive too. Introducing these will include too many factors which may be confusing for professional players.
lrv wrote:Whether a map is 130 HP or 170 HP sometimes makes a big difference.
lrv wrote:But there are many other things to consider beforehand. Maps should endorse tactical diversity and good layout before design.
lrv wrote:Approval shouldn't be about representing the game
lrv wrote:that's what the map rotation should be for.
lrv wrote:Approval should be for maps that balance out with the rest while providing fun gameplay
lrv wrote:They aren't 1:1 symetrical, but from my quick skim it looks like you would use the same tactics on both sides.
lrv wrote:Many approved maps just have it to simple. Take the well-known stryde-sniper for example. Except fo occasionly using nades to throw them into a cover zone it's just about keeping moving and shooting as fast as possible in most spots.
lrv wrote:I'm not talking about that. For example if you're making a map designed for coop with an intended fall hazard, and change HP up accordingly or boost a nearby gravitator. You'll notice when testing in DM that that's a problem and make adjustments. You'll do this throughout your playtesting until you're maps eventually become oversimplified. In the long term that will lead to fairly indistinct and boring maps.
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