Enemies list should be added again

General Discussion related to the Plazma Burst game series.

Enemies list should be added again

Postby Zyra Xov » 7 February 2018, 00:26

Ever remember the old days, where people would have vicious but friendly rivalries?

Probably not. But if they did, the [ Enemies Online (73) ] tab of the profile dashboard would come in handy, letting you know how many important friends, people, or your true "enemies" were online.

Back in my day, there was a certain social effect of using the enemy feature, people would create matches that would be titled, "Mr C and Zyra come." Either it would be a small clique, or the whole gang. Social beefs would be discussed, and in general it would turn into a chillin' kickback.

I have a feeling that the reasons I stated sound like crazy shit, but idk, in short, it was a nice part of the early PB2 that would be nice to see again.
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Re: Enemies list should be added again

Postby gani » 7 February 2018, 10:06

no please no please no please no!

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Re: Enemies list should be added again

Postby Star Fox McCloud » 7 February 2018, 13:34

Add back enemies list, but don't add the "hated by enemies list"

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Re: Enemies list should be added again

Postby maxim12 » 7 February 2018, 17:40

If it should be returned back, it should be named Challenge list or Watch list instead of Enemies list, you know more friendly approach instead of the hatred provocating nature the enemies list had.
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Re: Enemies list should be added again

Postby lostmydollar » 7 February 2018, 18:24

i think community is not ready for enemies list to be returned. a while ago i was collecting people in that list for the sake of fun, and guess what. every new day - a new message from some angry player who thinks that i hate him

but:
maxim12 wrote:If it should be returned back, it should be named Challenge list or Watch list instead of Enemies list, you know more friendly approach instead of the hatred provocating nature the enemies list had.

this might be a solution
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Re: Enemies list should be added again

Postby jeff the hacker » 8 February 2018, 07:54

if its not buggy like when in 2015 at my old account.
i saw one of my friend in the enemies/hated by list.
when i meet her i asked her if she did added me into enemies list.
and she doesn't believe what i said :|
im an alien inside

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Re: Enemies list should be added again

Postby JayaRaya » 8 February 2018, 09:07

Why should the "Enemy List" has to be added back ? other than just to be nice to see it again ?

The word "Enemy" means an individual or group that is seen as forcefully adverse or threatening. The term "Enemy" is derived from Latin for "Bad Friend" (Latin: inimicus). "Enemy" is a strong word, & "emotions associated with the enemy would include Anger, Hatred, Frustration, Envy, Jealousy, Fear, Distrust, & possibly grudging respect". As a political concept, an enemy is likely to be met with Hate, Violence, Battle & War. (Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy)

So explicitly, "Enemy" means a person to you Hate!

Just a reminder, here's are the reasons why the "Enemy List" being officially removed :
> The system can be misused easily. PB2 community itself is full of kids that can get offended so quickly, more like a potential "Toxic Member". It's no longer being used like what it was intended. Like instead using it to challenge someone, it's actually being used for ridiculous reasons.

- You added me into your enemy list just because i killed you ? seriously ? (PB2 is a shooting / killing game...)
- You added me into your enemy list just because i kick you from my match ? (When a person being disrespect towards the game master...)
- You added me into your enemy list just because i win 1v1 against you ? really ? (When a person being salty of don't want to accept defeat...)
- You added me into your enemy list just because you don't like me ? (Possible flame wars would happen...)
- You added me into your enemy list just because you want to see when i'm online ? (Why you can't just added me into your friends list...?)
- You added me into your enemy list just because you want to do silly & cringy things with the list ? For example : http://prntscr.com/ibqqvg (Source : viewtopic.php?f=117&t=18760)
- You added me into your enemy list for no good reason ? what ?
And many more...

> I don't see other multiplayer games used the "Enemy List" system. Like Tanki Online, Star Wars Battlefront, Supremacy 1914, World of Tanks / Warships, Minecraft, Roblox, etc. I don't see any good reason why the "Enemy List" has to be added back. In fact, i see many good reasons why it was officially being removed in the first place. Remember this : viewtopic.php?f=117&t=18818

Simple enough, when the "Enemy List" being removed, all kinds of flame wars about it (on both the game & it's forum) has completely stop. And people (including myself) gratefully agreed that the list has been removed for good. Because it's just pointless.

And about the solution of be named into "Challenge List" or "Watch List". Come to think of it, i'm afraid that it will possibly be abused & misused like the original one. Like probally : No one looks at that list & goes "These are my challengers?"

It's my thoughts anyway, correct me if i'm wrong. ~ Regards :)
"Always repent and rectify any mistakes that you have been done."


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Re: Enemies list should be added again

Postby 49er » 10 February 2018, 23:44

But then my fwees fwees won't be protected if the enemy list feature comes back
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Re: Enemies list should be added again

Postby Hikarikaze » 11 February 2018, 00:06

JayaRaya wrote:Why should the "Enemy List" has to be added back ? other than just to be nice to see it again ?

The main issue with the argument for taking out the list was that everyone focused on one connotation for "enemies" which was the entire "people that hate each other" thing. An enemy isn't necessary explicitly someone you hate. The word enemy is synonymous with "challenger," "opponent," and "rival," all of which don't suggest immediate hatred but rather a relationship based off a disagreement. To be an enemy is to be actively opposed to something, like in the case of me: I'm an enemy to the argument for taking out the list. I don't hate anything but I am actively opposed. There's a difference but nobody cared enough to understand that. The fixated concentration to the definition of "that guy is an enemy so he clearly hates me" is what led to people thinking the list was designed to foster hatred when it was really meant to foster competition. People need to stop and think for once before acting like their opinions are right because they don't understand how to use a word properly or even within proper context

Renaming the system to a "challenger list" or even a "rival list" isn't going to solve much because it's literally the same exact thing with a less stronger connotation. Two challengers can hate each other. Two challengers can become enemies. Two rivals can also become enemies. Is there really a difference? For a game meant to be competitive, I'm surprised the community was on board removing the backbone of competition without giving any sort of thought. Actually, I'm not even surprised at this point. It shamefully illustrates what influences change in this community.

For about most of the people in favor of taking the list out, it must be nice sounding quite ignorant and having everything catered to them based off it. I wouldn't know though. I'm still trying to understand how quickly the list was removed without consideration for the other side despite the various flawed arguments. It's one of those issues where the disconnect between people become really obvious and large. I also love how this wasn't ever a problem until someone's feelings got that hurt months ago that this suddenly became an "issue."

lostmydollar wrote:i think community is not ready for enemies list to be returned.

From the looks of the original topic regarding the list, the community wasn't ever ready for the list if barely anyone bothered to understand its original intent.
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Re: Enemies list should be added again

Postby lyleshannon » 11 February 2018, 13:08

yes i love the enemies list when someone votes me or just likes to be mean in general (besides guests sadly) i can add them to enemies list, and remember who they are too

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Re: Enemies list should be added again

Postby maxim12 » 11 February 2018, 21:14

The reason why I started that thread about the enemy list is because when I see I'm being hated by someone else, especialiy from the forums and we didnt even faced each other in the game, it started to bother me, and I started to feel like I'm being hated or something, and belive me, for people like me and I'm sure for many others It's uncomfortable and It's sad that some people dont understand this. It's sad when people just start to harsly judge you sharing your views about the enemy list and It's huge flaws.

Like really, if you find someone good, and because of that like him, and then make friendly fights, that means your friends, It's not hard just to add eachother to friend list.

And also, there is a good reason why the enemies list is not returning:
49er wrote:But then my fwees fwees won't be protected if the enemy list feature comes back

^this quote is an example. I'm sure if the enemy list is added back, users like these will start adding people to his enemy list who shared his views to why the enemy list is bad, just so to provocate the "Oh so delicious" tears of those users << literaly the proof that PB2 community has toxic users and trolls and the reason why this list is removed.


P.S:
I also used to be one of those cringy kids, who adds everyone to enemy list because of the reasons that JayaRaya posted, and because of that I'm changed.

JayaRaya wrote: - You added me into your enemy list just because i killed you ? seriously ? (PB2 is a shooting / killing game...)
- You added me into your enemy list just because i kick you from my match ? (When a person being disrespect towards the game master...)
- You added me into your enemy list just because i win 1v1 against you ? really ? (When a person being salty of don't want to accept defeat...)
- You added me into your enemy list just because you don't like me ? (Possible flame wars would happen...)
- You added me into your enemy list just because you want to see when i'm online ? (Why you can't just added me into your friends list...?)
- You added me into your enemy list just because you want to do silly & cringy things with the list ? For example : http://prntscr.com/ibqqvg (Source : viewtopic.php?f=117&t=18760)
- You added me into your enemy list for no good reason ? what ?


It's not only because of those reasons mate. This can also be Forum-wise, for example you posted your views about something particular, the other user disagreed with you, added you to his enemy list, and later the situation can go worse by either that user starting to harsly judge you, troll you or other random things which considered toxic.
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Re: Enemies list should be added again

Postby Hikarikaze » 11 February 2018, 21:29

maxim12 wrote:The reason why I started that thread about the enemy list is because when I see I'm being hated by someone else, especialiy from the forums and we didnt even faced each other in the game bothered me, and I started to feel like I'm being hated or something.

So you basically had a well intended feature removed because your feelings were personally hurt. That's not surprising but it's amazing. You confirmed that your lack of an argument got it removed as you had already shown from the start.

It just proves my point that people don't care to focus on what an enemy can mean. Your representation and opinion on what an enemy is which was an extreme version of the definition of an enemy led to an entire bandwagon relying on an ad populum argument. Exactly my reason why it's surprising that the list got entirely removed quietly at your own behest.

maxim12 wrote:It's sad when people just start to harsly judge you sharing your views about the enemy list and It's huge flaws.

Get real. You were literally handed what you wanted. At least your opinions and arguments weren't invalidated because everyone else thought rationally.

maxim12 wrote:And also, there is a good reason why the enemies list is not returning:

There is a good reason why it's not returning according to me and me only*

maxim12 wrote:^this quote is an example. I'm sure if the enemy list is added back, users like these will start adding people to his enemy list who posted bad things about enemy list with reasons, just to provocate the "Oh so delicious" tears of others, literaly the proof that PB2 community has toxic users and trolls.

Must be nice assuming things about others with no factual basis as well as blindly predicting causation based off some random correlation you found. Not everything runs by your words.

Literally the proof we have ignorant people in the community.

maxim12 wrote:It's not only because of those reasons mate. This can also be Forum-wise, for example you posted your views about something particular, the other user disagreed with you, added you to his enemy list, and later the situation can go worse by either that user starting to harsly judge you, troll you or other random things which considered toxic.

Problem with that logic is that there's a good reason to judge you especially on the forums. The door goes both ways
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Re: Enemies list should be added again

Postby maxim12 » 11 February 2018, 22:20

Thats correct, I'm an sensitive person, and my feelings gets hurt when people add me to enemy list for unjustificated reasons, and most importantly, I have no shame in admiting that. Maybe that does not affect you (Which is prodably why you're against the removal of the list), but it does affect me. You dont disagree with me, because of my shared point, you disagreed with me, just because I'm sensitive about it, and thats in my opinion where your argument fails.

There is a good reason why it's not returning according to me and me only

Yep, thats called opinion.

Problem with that logic is that there's a good reason to judge you especially on the forums. The door goes both ways


So, It's ok exploit one's sensitivenes by giving them hard judging. Good job, you're earned the achievment of being an jerk, no offense.
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Re: Enemies list should be added again

Postby Hikarikaze » 11 February 2018, 22:52

maxim12 wrote:Thats correct, I'm an sensitive person, and my feelings gets hurt when people add me to enemy list for unjustificated reasons

You feeling personally offended was the entire basis of your argument. Your argument from the start was weak and yet people kept eating it up enough for Eric to follow through to remove the list entirely when changing it was a better option and a compromise

If your sole option for things that offend you is to entirely remove them, then you may as well push to get multiplayer, the forums, and just about the whole Internet gone. Things don't run the way you want to. If you get hurt, then you have to deal with it. Trying to use the "out of sight, out of mind" way of thinking isn't going to stop that. Removing things because only you thought it was personally offensive, and yes, this whole thing did start because you took it personal, only harms the game and its state. In the end, only you end up being the toxic one.

maxim12 wrote:You dont disagree with me, because of my shared point, you disagreed with me, just because I'm sensitive about it, and thats in my opinion where your argument fails.

I disagree with you because your solution was extreme and unnecessary while your argument was pathetically weak. Your lack of understanding is what objectively made your argument fail. I supported my own argument. You didn't. Therefore it's best that you don't tell me where and if my argument failed because it at least was an argument of substance compared to your emotional upset that you tried to disguise as a cheap excuse of an argument

But sure, keep trying to justify my own thinking in your own twisted way to feed your own flawed viewpoint

maxim12 wrote:maybe that does not affect you (Which is prodably why you're against the removal of the list), but it does affect me.

People added me to their enemies list for stupid reasons but I never bothered to care because it doesn't affect me. I don't sit there checking the "hated by" list thinking, "Wow, that guy hates me? I'm deeply hurt" because why would I? It's a list. I understand the different uses people had for it so I don't automatically assume people just outright hate me. Your sensitivity made you misinterpret and generalize which led to the flawed reasoning you called an argument.

maxim12 wrote:Yep, thats called opinion.

Yet you treat it as a fact. You also think correlation leads to causation for some reason

maxim12 wrote:So, It's ok exploit one's sensitivenes by giving them hard judging. Good job, you're earned the achievment of being an jerk, no offense.

The meaning of that flew over your head just like the meaning for "enemy." Good job, you've once again earned the achievement of being ignorant, all offense intended since apparently you want to antagonize me as somebody obnoxious.

I suggest you read back the things you've written then ask yourself why people judge you. If you need a place to start, I'll give you one:

maxim12 wrote:I'm sure if the enemy list is added back, users like these will start adding people to his enemy list who shared his views to why the enemy list is bad, just so to provocate the "Oh so delicious" tears of those users << literaly the proof that PB2 community has toxic users and trolls and the reason why this list is removed.

Hint: it's all about assuming and concluding someone to be a troll without giving logical thought

The same way you point fingers at others, trying to label them as something only you think they are, the same way I or anyone else can point fingers at you for doing something that I or anyone else thinks is worth judging or wrong. This is called fairness. If you can't deal with that, then the world's not meant for you. Cushioning everything for your safety only at the expense of others will warrant judgment.

I can also say that you exploited your own sensitivity by using it as the driving force behind the push to eliminate the list entirely from start to finish. It is, after all, the sole thing that drove people to agree with you because emotions are relatable. Facts are non-existent in this community anyways as you had proven.

You keep saying "this is the reason this" and "this is the reason that" without even proving or showing how it's the reason. You just keep on using personal anecdotes, half of which are literally own your interpretations on a completely subjective topic, to fuel your own emotional distress and you dare try to think that my argument out of everyone else's was weak or a failure. That's a strong ego built off denial if I've ever seen one. All the more surprising how your word was the chosen way in the end.
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Re: Enemies list should be added again

Postby maxim12 » 11 February 2018, 22:56

Well, ok. I could agree with you at some points you made, so yeah... Fair enough.
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Re: Enemies list should be added again

Postby maxim12 » 17 February 2018, 15:49

First of all, I'm apologize for double post, but I had to do this.

Hikarikaze wrote:In the end, only you end up being the toxic one.



Heres one thing that worries me about this part of your post.


What I did, mainly for you, to deserve the title of being "Toxic"? Did I offend anyone, or you? No, I nver insult people.

I personaly have witnessed people insulting, or being offensive towards each other, for the really most stupedies reasons ever.

There are already people who started to insult me or harrass me through PM's just because I had the Russian flag on my avatar. Which is the reason why I changed my avatar so far.

And guess? all this crap happened only in this forum, I never experienced such thing in other communities, expect for the PB2 community. This actualy proves the point that this is not ok.

You dont care about that, let people insult each other, let people be complete offencive jerks towards each other, but you dont give a shit about this, you think thats ok, you think this is ok because of the so called "Fairness" as you call, but you never cared about the forums being harmonic and clean from this. This is the reason why I also created that thread about the enemy list, just so it can reduce all this, yet you started to claim me as toxic just because your so called favorite feature is removed.


Let me tell you this: I know you have your own views and opinions, but that does not mean you have to stick them over other people and say "It's a fact" while It's not.

For once stop being so selfish and finaly give some care about the community, because I've never seen you caring about the community.
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Re: Enemies list should be added again

Postby Hikarikaze » 17 February 2018, 22:14

maxim12 wrote:What I did, mainly for you, to deserve the title of being "Toxic"? Did I offend anyone, or you? No, I nver insult people.

That's a lie. I still have PMs from you trying to "explain" to me how America is so bad and flawed. Ironically, you ended the first message in that thread with "I hope we can end this in peace" as to try to run off and not cause trouble after trying to incite it by playing the "I know my country isn't that great but let me tell you how you're not better" card.

http://prntscr.com/ig63ry


And if you need an example where you blatantly were insulting:


And lastly, the icing on the cake:


These PMs are old but you said that you never insulted so you asked for it.

That full circle tactic is your main issue. You say one thing then go around and try to act like a victim. Everything literally offends you to some degree. Your avatar was changed because you personally felt insulted by someone else saying something you didn't like. That's why you made a topic suggesting a block feature and changed the avatar while justifying that "everyone's triggered about my avatar" but you're the triggered one. You point fingers at everyone else but yourself.

Trying to harm the competitive nature of the game is toxicity. Toxicity is when someone tries to harm one's experiences in a game or the state of the game in a way. The enemies list had good potential of being a feature that fosters competition and therefore increase game activity among rivals. However, because you couldn't care enough to open up a dictionary and read up on context as to how the word "enemy" is used, you decided it was the greatest option to outright remove the feature when far more people wanted to keep the list but make changes to it. That alone is toxicity. You advocated for the removal of a feature that a lot of people used for their own reasons and you got what you wanted for your own benefit. You're not offended anymore by the list because there is no list anymore. However, there's plenty of people missing a tracking feature, people that used the enemies list for something else, etc. I bet that thought didn't cross your mind when that argument was made countless times and while you felt offended. Selfishness is toxicity and you are an example of it.

maxim12 wrote:And guess? all this crap happened only in this forum, I never experienced such thing in other communities, expect for the PB2 community. This actualy proves the point that this is not ok.

Nobody said it was okay to do. However, you seem to think it happens for no reason. It's a cycle when it comes to you: you say something, I or someone else says something back, you acknowledge what you've done, and then you go back to saying something that repeats the whole thing again.

This type of behavior isn't exclusive to you. I was in arguments because I had made an AMA thread for fun and out of interest, something that people tried to pin me with as "attention-seeking" by the 20 people that tried to tell me what I out of all people was thinking when I made that topic. Ironically, half of those people made AMA threads soon after. I was targeted in the past solely for having a colored name as well. I've had my fair share of attacks based on both my identity/user status as well as light-heartedness and attempts at having some sort of community interaction that I didn't get to completely create a couple of years prior to doing so. However I didn't make a big deal about it because unlike you, I know this is the Internet and that's how the world works.

maxim12 wrote:You dont care about that, let people insult each other, let people be complete offencive jerks towards each other, but you dont give a shit about this, you think thats ok, you think this is ok because of the so called "Fairness" as you call, but you never cared about the forums being harmonic and clean from this. This is the reason why I also created that thread about the enemy list, just so it can reduce all this, yet you started to claim me as toxic just because your so called favorite feature is removed.

You wonder why I call you toxic and this is why. You assume random things without trying to prove it. Your indirect ad hominem arguments don't get you anywhere.

I don't care if two people are insulting each other as long as it doesn't involve me in it because it's not my business and I'm not a mediator in that situation unless I'm asked to be one by either side. I do care if someone's trying to insult me but whether I want to reply or not is also dependent on the things being said.

Maybe you weren't here a few years ago but this "offensiveness" you speak of rarely used to exist when I was around. Now that you're here, that's changed and it's since went up. Why do you think that is? I used to be the cleanup crew when it came to downright vicious insults and purely offensive subjects so you saying that I don't care is just your ignorance of the past showing. The only reason it may look like I don't care is because I don't have that ability to take out those kinds of posts and messages anymore.

The only reason I talk about fairness is because you don't understand it. If you do something to someone, that person has all rights to do the same back to you. I don't care if it's right or wrong to give back what you gave the person because that's up to the person making that decision. I'm not a moral compass for others. If you assume something bad about me then I can assume something bad about you back. You shouldn't even be able to complain that I'm doing something you did to me because you did it first. I'm not interested in calling people hypocrites but if that's how your behavior is and you wonder why people, in your eyes, antagonize you, then I have to spell it out for you since you don't seem to get it.

maxim12 wrote:For once stop being so selfish and finaly give some care about the community, because I've never seen you caring about the community.

You're funny. Like I said, maybe you weren't here a couple of years ago. I can run an entire list of how I helped this community:

- As a HM, I taught the majority of the staff team at the time how to moderate properly at the time. That not only resulted in this place running smoothly but it also improved team chemistry. Things were actually getting done in the community at full pace with my involvement. Show me somebody that's doing that right now on the same level.

- When nobody else was around to do anything, I was the one cleaning up the forums from the outright stupid and excessive mess people would post on the forums. Same went for the chat too. I didn't have to if I didn't want to.

- The current set of rules people here love to quote and use were all organized together by me. You're literally playing by my rules here.

- I reported things people otherwise didn't care enough to report but were still harmful overall to the community. Hopefully you remember the chat karma system topic because you yourself replied to it. It may had been ignored overall and even shadowed further by the launch of the Discord server, but I did make an attempt. I just didn't happen to cry enough about it to get any changes done.

Even today, any artists or mapmakers generally get feedback from me on how to improve their own contributions to the community. I also shot suggestions towards newer staff members, though I don't do this anymore for my own withheld reasons. Again, I didn't have to but I did anyways. Show me the list of things you've done for this community.
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Re: Enemies list should be added again

Postby maxim12 » 18 February 2018, 00:05

Hikarikaze wrote:*Long post*


I acknowledged it. Maybe I need to learn a few things from you.

And yeah, I sorry for that part aswell:

And if you need an example where you blatantly were insulting:
*Picture*


It was intended to be an response to the Stereotype that people usualy love to say about the Russians like "Russians love to drink vodka", so that was my response to it.

But anyway, I aknowledge that I was harsh with that response, so I appologize for that.
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Re: Enemies list should be added again

Postby Xier44 » 3 December 2019, 17:34

Its cool idea
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