Variability In Bullet Damages Aka Tanking.

General Discussion related to the Plazma Burst game series.

Should bullet damages at same velocity and body area be constant or random/varied.

Constant
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50%
Varied/Random
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Total votes : 8

Variability In Bullet Damages Aka Tanking.

Postby Resurrectionn » 9 February 2019, 15:53

When it comes to ranked gameplay i think everyone who enjoys being competitive can agree that the game should be as skilled base as reasonably possible but also being enjoyable.

I think something that most people would agree variable bullet damage goes under neither skilled based (since its happens randomly) and it isnt fun to die to it either.

If you didnt know in PB2 for whatever reason the game was so that each weapons bullets varied damaged. Eg pistol shot hits between 40-70 to the legs. Other factors can effect the variable such as bullet placement, bullet velocity etc. However EVERY shot has a variability which is horrible for competitively speaking. If you want to test what im saying go to any map and shoot someone with the same gun, same distance, same body area and you will notice that the bullet damage will differ.

To have a sound shooter competitively, there needs to be as little variability as possible, if a clean sniper shot to the head at 10 meters is 200 damage for example it should same every time( unless other variabilities change eg bullet velocity).

Ive never seen any other shooter that has this issue and i dont think most people enjoy enemies "tanking" at random.
Last edited by Resurrectionn on 10 February 2019, 22:06, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Variability In Bullet Damages Aka Tanking.

Postby Jason Eden » 9 February 2019, 16:00

It's not an issue. It's what makes the game realistic, and realism in games is always good.

Quit playing sniper and you will stop noticing this "issue".
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Re: Variability In Bullet Damages Aka Tanking.

Postby generaltahsin » 9 February 2019, 16:17

Jason Eden wrote:It's not an issue. It's what makes the game realistic, and realism in games is always good.

Quit playing sniper and you will stop noticing this "issue".


>Realism
>PB2

I really hope you are just kidding. PB2 is not realistic at all. (Guns have unlimited ammo and don't eject casings, health regeneration, def, boosting, no ffa for alpha, etc.)

I support this guy's opinion because it caused problems in my latest map too. I made enemies with 50 hp so I can kill them all with 1 shot but guess what? Some of them go dying status, some of them die and some of them survive. So it can even ruin maps. I think there should be an option in info to stop this.
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Re: Variability In Bullet Damages Aka Tanking.

Postby phsc » 9 February 2019, 18:39

there are also other problems related to this which is accuracy of guns being client sided which deliciously exquisite pizza sauce makes it sometimes even worse, in your screen you hit a headshot, in the enemy screen that was like a leg shot so it does way less damage

but yeah it makes almost no sense, i do think the value should be constant, it is not realistic and also not balanced, i do think the bullet speed factor is valid tho

anyway just ignore jason eden/lostmydollar, he is a biased alienated incel who thinks pb2 should be how he wants it to be not what our loveloy wholesome lord eric gurt wants it to be even tho its erics private property

lostmydollar wrote:It's not an issue. It's what makes the game realistic, and realism in games is always good.

what about it is realistic? it is an issue because it is client calculated, and it doesnt make it realistic, if it was purely oriented onp ositions n characters had organs n calculations for penetration that would be great AND THE SKILLCAP WOULD BE WAY HIGHER but no, and even then it would need to be server oriented, not client
lostmydollar wrote:Quit playing sniper and you will stop noticing this "issue".

no, it happens a lot in arena too, rays is imo the worst case, rails too, and there is no problem with people playing snipers lmao
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Re: Variability In Bullet Damages Aka Tanking.

Postby Resi » 9 February 2019, 19:41

Wait, are you SURE bullets have random damage? I know they can hit random bodyparts due to desync, but is there also random damage?

Btw, ignore Jason Eden/LostMyDollar, he's a troll and the staff don't care.
phsc wrote:WHY ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT REALISM IN A FUTURISTIC 2D FLASH SCROLL SHOOTER THAT HAS ALIENS AND UNREALISTIC UNHOLDABLE GUNS AND REGENERATION AND MANY OTHER THINGS, LOSTMYDOLLAR/JASON EDEN PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT A REALISTIC GAME AND STOP TRYING TO TURN IT INTO ONE BECAUSE IT WONT
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Re: Variability In Bullet Damages Aka Tanking.

Postby Resurrectionn » 10 February 2019, 21:57

Jason Eden wrote:It's not an issue. It's what makes the game realistic, and realism in games is always good.

Quit playing sniper and you will stop noticing this "issue".


So surviving, sniper shots to the head is realistic to you? And also every game that is considered realstic(pubg, h1z1 etc) do not have this variable bullet damage.
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Re: Variability In Bullet Damages Aka Tanking.

Postby Resurrectionn » 10 February 2019, 22:01

Jason Eden wrote:It's not an issue. It's what makes the game realistic, and realism in games is always good.

Quit playing sniper and you will stop noticing this "issue".


And secondly it has nothing to do with snipers lmao. For example in your beloved sector map sometimes the alien shotgun is a 1 shot head shot and sometimes it isnt which is very frustrating to die. When they survive yours. Please use your brain before you decide to speak
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Re: Variability In Bullet Damages Aka Tanking.

Postby Hikarikaze » 10 February 2019, 22:09

Evidence needed first. Just claiming something isn't enough to prove anything
---
Edit:

Tested it out with a scaled up character so I could target specific parts of its hitbox better. The sniper rifle did 275 damage with each shot to the head, with HP regen entirely disabled:

https://prnt.sc/mja7kr - 1000 HP -> 725
https://prnt.sc/mja7ql - 725 -> 450
https://prnt.sc/mja7wm - 450 -> 175

What you assume is damage variation is simply each shot hitting different parts of the hitbox, which affects how much damage is done to the character being shot. Headshots dealing more damage is an obvious example. There is no damage variation in actuality. You simply confused how hitboxes work as damage variation.

Edit 2: I also used the ray gun, with perfect accuracy so each pellet landed at the same spot, to prove there's no damage variation and that this is a hitbox problem. It did 148 damage in total for every headshot. At one point it did 149 damage but the difference is miniscule enough that it still doesn't prove there's damage variation between each shot

https://prnt.sc/mjabxc - 1000 -> 852
https://prnt.sc/mjac3b - 852 -> 703
https://prnt.sc/mjacuf - 703 -> 555
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Re: Variability In Bullet Damages Aka Tanking.

Postby Resi » 10 February 2019, 22:59

Hikarikaze wrote:Tested it out with a scaled up character so I could target specific parts of its hitbox better. The sniper rifle did 275 damage with each shot to the head, with HP regen entirely disabled:


You're doing god's work!
phsc wrote:WHY ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT REALISM IN A FUTURISTIC 2D FLASH SCROLL SHOOTER THAT HAS ALIENS AND UNREALISTIC UNHOLDABLE GUNS AND REGENERATION AND MANY OTHER THINGS, LOSTMYDOLLAR/JASON EDEN PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT A REALISTIC GAME AND STOP TRYING TO TURN IT INTO ONE BECAUSE IT WONT
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Re: Variability In Bullet Damages Aka Tanking.

Postby phsc » 10 February 2019, 23:09

Hikarikaze wrote:testing


doesnt impact force affect? not sure how it is calculated in pb2 but in theory if you self boost really fast into a sniper bullet it should do more damage, according to my testing with changing the bullet speed via triggers if i remember right the damage of guns did get higher so maybe that is a factor?
also looks like my guess was right, probably it is the accuracy of guns being different in each client making so it looks like the damage guns make is different when they shouldnt be
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Re: Variability In Bullet Damages Aka Tanking.

Postby Hikarikaze » 10 February 2019, 23:40

phsc wrote:
Hikarikaze wrote:testing


doesnt impact force affect? not sure how it is calculated in pb2 but in theory if you self boost really fast into a sniper bullet it should do more damage, according to my testing with changing the bullet speed via triggers if i remember right the damage of guns did get higher so maybe that is a factor?
also looks like my guess was right, probably it is the accuracy of guns being different in each client making so it looks like the damage guns make is different when they shouldnt be

It's likely (haven't tested with modified weapons yet), but OP is claiming each shot does different damage, even without all of these factors in play. That's why I did my testing along the lines of what he suggested: same distance, same body area, etc. The weapons themselves don't have damage variation for every shot as an intrinsic mechanic. There is damage variation, but it's not from the individual shots alone themselves like OP is claiming, but rather the other factors like hitboxes, bullet speed, etc. OP is attributing an effect to the wrong thing.
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Re: Variability In Bullet Damages Aka Tanking.

Postby Resurrectionn » 11 February 2019, 01:16

Hikarikaze wrote:Evidence needed first. Just claiming something isn't enough to prove anything
---
Edit:

Tested it out with a scaled up character so I could target specific parts of its hitbox better. The sniper rifle did 275 damage with each shot to the head, with HP regen entirely disabled:

https://prnt.sc/mja7kr - 1000 HP -> 725
https://prnt.sc/mja7ql - 725 -> 450
https://prnt.sc/mja7wm - 450 -> 175

What you assume is damage variation is simply each shot hitting different parts of the hitbox, which affects how much damage is done to the character being shot. Headshots dealing more damage is an obvious example. There is no damage variation in actuality. You simply confused how hitboxes work as damage variation.

Edit 2: I also used the ray gun, with perfect accuracy so each pellet landed at the same spot, to prove there's no damage variation and that this is a hitbox problem. It did 148 damage in total for every headshot. At one point it did 149 damage but the difference is miniscule enough that it still doesn't prove there's damage variation between each shot

https://prnt.sc/mjabxc - 1000 -> 852
https://prnt.sc/mjac3b - 852 -> 703
https://prnt.sc/mjacuf - 703 -> 555

I did some of my own testing, i went to look at some of my old footage, and i found a time i got a tank, ill link the video and timestamp in a second. And made 2 tabs and remade the situation and i didnt get a tank , infact it was a kill.
Link of a 1 shot : https://youtu.be/eCJzr_QsKXE

And here is a vid of a tank, which according to my tests should never happen. https://youtu.be/R5y3NfqSF7A go to 1:30

Perhaps there are more factors we aren't aware of.
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Re: Variability In Bullet Damages Aka Tanking.

Postby phsc » 11 February 2019, 01:23

Resurrectionn wrote:
Hikarikaze wrote:test

I did some of my own testing, i went to look at some of my old footage, and i found a time i got a tank, ill link the video and timestamp in a second. And made 2 tabs and remade the situation and i didnt get a tank , infact it was a kill.
Link of a 1 shot : https://youtu.be/eCJzr_QsKXE

And here is a vid of a tank, which according to my tests should never happen. https://youtu.be/R5y3NfqSF7A go to 1:30

Perhaps there are more factors we aren't aware of.


no we are aware of the factors i mentioned them in posts you didnt read

SYNCING, the accuracy of a weapon is calculated in each client, as weapons reload time also are, as i imagine character speeds that are used in calculating damage also are as speed is client oriented when you change the modifier and as also health is(these days its verified by the server tho)
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Re: Variability In Bullet Damages Aka Tanking.

Postby Resurrectionn » 11 February 2019, 01:32

phsc wrote:
Resurrectionn wrote:
Hikarikaze wrote:test

I did some of my own testing, i went to look at some of my old footage, and i found a time i got a tank, ill link the video and timestamp in a second. And made 2 tabs and remade the situation and i didnt get a tank , infact it was a kill.
Link of a 1 shot : https://youtu.be/eCJzr_QsKXE

And here is a vid of a tank, which according to my tests should never happen. https://youtu.be/R5y3NfqSF7A go to 1:30

Perhaps there are more factors we aren't aware of.


no we are aware of the factors i mentioned them in posts you didnt read

SYNCING, the accuracy of a weapon is calculated in each client, as weapons reload time also are, as i imagine character speeds that are used in calculating damage also are as speed is client oriented when you change the modifier and as also health is(these days its verified by the server tho)


Can you explain how any of those factors could have altered my test.?
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Re: Variability In Bullet Damages Aka Tanking.

Postby phsc » 11 February 2019, 01:35

Resurrectionn wrote:etc


the distance is pretty high, which means the accuracy different might be considerable, one shot that is supposed to be leg and doesnt miss in your screen might miss in enemy screen, also im not sure exactly how exactly pb2s hitboxes are, maybe the specific angle hits some part that overlaps another, you get the concept

i might decompile the flash files n try to understand how exactly dmg n all these things work in some time
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Re: Variability In Bullet Damages Aka Tanking.

Postby Resurrectionn » 11 February 2019, 02:08

phsc wrote:
Resurrectionn wrote:etc


the distance is pretty high, which means the accuracy different might be considerable, one shot that is supposed to be leg and doesnt miss in your screen might miss in enemy screen, also im not sure exactly how exactly pb2s hitboxes are, maybe the specific angle hits some part that overlaps another, you get the concept

i might decompile the flash files n try to understand how exactly dmg n all these things work in some time


Its currently 1 am for me rn so i cant do anymore testing rn, however ill try go more in-depth tomorrow preferably with a real target.
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Re: Variability In Bullet Damages Aka Tanking.

Postby phsc » 11 February 2019, 02:17

Resurrectionn wrote:
phsc wrote:
Resurrectionn wrote:etc


the distance is pretty high, which means the accuracy different might be considerable, one shot that is supposed to be leg and doesnt miss in your screen might miss in enemy screen, also im not sure exactly how exactly pb2s hitboxes are, maybe the specific angle hits some part that overlaps another, you get the concept

i might decompile the flash files n try to understand how exactly dmg n all these things work in some time


Its currently 1 am for me rn so i cant do anymore testing rn, however ill try go more in-depth tomorrow preferably with a real target.

testing won't give you answers, you need to think about how it works, it is not weapon itself damage changes, it is syncing, in singleplayer that doesn't happen, try out, in multiplayer the distance multiplier is really important when testing gun accuracy, try modding a gun with lower accuracy and testing, you will see what im talking about
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Re: Variability In Bullet Damages Aka Tanking.

Postby Resurrectionn » 11 February 2019, 07:32

Explain to what you mean by "syncing changes the damage"
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Re: Variability In Bullet Damages Aka Tanking.

Postby Jason Eden » 11 February 2019, 07:41

Resurrectionn wrote:So surviving, sniper shots to the head is realistic to you? And also every game that is considered realstic(pubg, h1z1 etc) do not have this variable bullet damage.

Resurrectionn wrote:And secondly it has nothing to do with snipers lmao. For example in your beloved sector map sometimes the alien shotgun is a 1 shot head shot and sometimes it isnt which is very frustrating to die. When they survive yours. Please use your brain before you decide to speak

There is an "EDIT" button if you didn't know.

First of all, in 2D it's hard to tell whenever the bullet hits you directly in the head or just scratches your cheek. Secondly, don't forget that PB2 takes place in future and characters use high tech armor with regeneration module. And lastly, in real life people sometimes survive headshots. Google it. And, Resurrectionn, please use your brain before you decide to speak!
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Re: Variability In Bullet Damages Aka Tanking.

Postby Resi » 11 February 2019, 11:35

Resurrectionn wrote:Explain to what you mean by "syncing changes the damage"


PB2's multiplayer isn't synced, what you see is different from what others see.

When you shoot, the direction the bullet goes is random. You may hit the enemy's head in your screen, but in their screen you may hit their torso instead.
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