Plazma Burst 2 and 3

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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby Jusiah » 11 January 2019, 00:23

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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby jdc55 » 11 January 2019, 00:58

Hikarikaze wrote:
jdc55 wrote:My idea for map selection is as fair as it gets.

And what dictates the order of this map selection? A sniper-oriented team would be at an advantage if games 1 and 2 happened to be snipers and rails maps for example, and vice versa if a different map type was selected. You can try to create the most fair map selection process in the world, but it's a fact that true randomization tends to be the most fair method.

jdc55 wrote:This gives a chance for everyone on the team to show their skills in every match and not have to miss out on it because random map types were chosen. This format helps those who are actually good or consistent at all or most map types to have great seeds and not just on a random lucky map draw. It also causes for wide map variety in the league. So teams will be stepping out their comfort zones. Every Game type will have atleast 3 or 4 maps proving the variety of maps this format will have.

Randomization prevents the selection of predictable and popular map picks. This already makes teams step out of their comfort zones and already ensures a wider map variety without any bias in the map selection process.

Proper leagues also follow some sort of randomization in their map selection instead of fully selecting maps manually. OWL randomly draws maps for competitors to play on and those players practice in advance. The only exception I can think of to this is R6S because game modes in R6S aren't as night and day compared to Overwatch or PB2, and some maps aren't considered suitable enough for competitive play, unlike in PB2 where every approved map by technicality is considered suitable enough for ranked/competitive play. Instead, a game like R6S only follows a certain map pool to utilize for their tournaments.

jdc55 wrote:So assigning specific random maps each and every match is way too inconcistent for players. And again, it also makes it to where certain players each and every time have to wait for an oppertunity to play. All players on a team should have the oppertunity to play in each and every match.

How is it inconsistent? If maps are randomly selected and players are given a window of time to practice on those maps, then that'll mean that players did have an opportunity to play on those maps and at least learn them, giving them more of a chance to compete properly.



You aren't understanding at all how this format works. Every match consist of at most 5 maps or games. Best of 5. There is randomness in drawings maps. But it isn't any map. It's a map in every category. So every match is Core 5 game types. Rails, Snipers, Arena, Warfare, and Rays. This way everyone on a team wether they specialize in any game type has the oppertuninty to play every week and not have to wait. It closes a gap because all teams would have to work on all game types.


What you aren't understanding is what I'm arguing against. That is below

PL Format
Best of 3

Game 1: Random Game Type
Game 2: Random Game Type
Game 3: Random Game Type


It's way too random and brings no type of consistency. Also makes countless players not able to play every single week. Teams should be able to use their players to their maximun capacity each and every match. The only time maps should be randomized is within the Game types Category. And Idk if you even know what that means, but it's the most balanced system. It takes every team out of their comfort zone, makes them focus on Maps and game types they don't specialize in and gives all players equal oppertunity to play in a match.


PL did this same random map system and it was really dumb and annoying. Certain players couldn't play and had to wait weeks to finally play and showed no sign on concistency. Every single Series of maps were different each and every time and that doesn't bring any balance to the game at all. What's the point of putting your focus on a specific game type if you aren't sure if it's the game type you'll play next week? With the PWL format you can focus on any game type and expect to use it in the next week and every week.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby Hikarikaze » 11 January 2019, 01:32

jdc55 wrote:What you aren't understanding is what I'm arguing against. That is below

PL Format
Best of 3

Game 1: Random Game Type
Game 2: Random Game Type
Game 3: Random Game Type

It's way too random and brings no type of consistency.

You're equating map selection to game type selection. That's not what I'm arguing for.

I'll give you an example. Say game 1 happens to be a sniper map. Rather than you or anyone else picking something like stryde-sniper, the selection is picked at random. This eliminates bias in map selection and offers more map variety because the chance of selecting a different map that is also not as used is higher. An unfamiliar map will also force players to step out of their comfort zone and learn a brand new map. There's no better way to showcase a consistent skill level than to have players across different maps, especially those that players aren't accustomed to entirely. It also makes the entire competition more interesting because it's technically something new to see.

jdc55 wrote:This way everyone on a team wether they specialize in any game type has the oppertuninty to play every week and not have to wait. It closes a gap because all teams would have to work on all game types.

First of all, why would you have specialized teams to begin with? This is an inherently flawed design. If you read my initial post, then you would know that specialized teams only belong in specialized competitions. Specialized teams will inevitably be out of place in an area not within their expertise and thus be at a disadvantage. Allowing team owners to run these kinds of team compositions when the overall competition is beyond what a team specializes in is a terrible decision to make.

You can't focus on the "core 5" modes, then allow teams that only focus on one of those modes in as well, and also want all of the players to have a fair opportunity to succeed and play as well.

jdc55 wrote:It's way too random and brings no type of consistency. Also makes countless players not able to play every single week. Teams should be able to use their players to their maximun capacity each and every match.

What's so hard to understand about announcing randomly selected maps (or game types even) ahead of time and giving players time to practice so they can play on those maps or game types? Explain to me how countless players would be unable to play if randomization was a thing unless you happened to announce what was upcoming at a very inconvenient time. Give me some scenarios where that would realistically happen so I can better understand this, because that right there sounds silly.

Claiming that randomness will bring inconsistency is also a redundant point, because of course randomness will be inconsistent. This is the whole nature of randomness. Even the slightest glance of consistency brought by a random system would be just that: random. You say that "it'll be too random and also inconsistent" but you don't really explain how that's such an issue. If matches are every week, then announce the next selection right after the match and give players that following week to prepare and practice for the next match. Where's the issue in operating that way?

jdc55 wrote:And Idk if you even know what that means, but it's the most balanced system. It takes every team out of their comfort zone, makes them focus on Maps and game types they don't specialize in and gives all players equal oppertunity to play in a match.

You can't theoretically have specialized teams then if you'll eventually force them to learn game types outside of their expertise. That makes those teams less specialized and more well-rounded. I said before allowing specialized teams was a flawed design, but this just eliminates the reason to even have specialized teams: eventually, those teams will not be specialized towards one game type anymore. It seems like your league is flawed on multiple levels, from team composition allowance to map selection in general, but this is to be expected when you try to make a competitive scene out of a game that's not competitive at all.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby jdc55 » 11 January 2019, 23:09

Hikarikaze wrote:
jdc55 wrote:What you aren't understanding is what I'm arguing against. That is below

PL Format
Best of 3

Game 1: Random Game Type
Game 2: Random Game Type
Game 3: Random Game Type

It's way too random and brings no type of consistency.

You're equating map selection to game type selection. That's not what I'm arguing for.

I'll give you an example. Say game 1 happens to be a sniper map. Rather than you or anyone else picking something like stryde-sniper, the selection is picked at random. This eliminates bias in map selection and offers more map variety because the chance of selecting a different map that is also not as used is higher. An unfamiliar map will also force players to step out of their comfort zone and learn a brand new map. There's no better way to showcase a consistent skill level than to have players across different maps, especially those that players aren't accustomed to entirely. It also makes the entire competition more interesting because it's technically something new to see.

jdc55 wrote:This way everyone on a team wether they specialize in any game type has the oppertuninty to play every week and not have to wait. It closes a gap because all teams would have to work on all game types.

First of all, why would you have specialized teams to begin with? This is an inherently flawed design. If you read my initial post, then you would know that specialized teams only belong in specialized competitions. Specialized teams will inevitably be out of place in an area not within their expertise and thus be at a disadvantage. Allowing team owners to run these kinds of team compositions when the overall competition is beyond what a team specializes in is a terrible decision to make.

You can't focus on the "core 5" modes, then allow teams that only focus on one of those modes in as well, and also want all of the players to have a fair opportunity to succeed and play as well.

jdc55 wrote:It's way too random and brings no type of consistency. Also makes countless players not able to play every single week. Teams should be able to use their players to their maximun capacity each and every match.

What's so hard to understand about announcing randomly selected maps (or game types even) ahead of time and giving players time to practice so they can play on those maps or game types? Explain to me how countless players would be unable to play if randomization was a thing unless you happened to announce what was upcoming at a very inconvenient time. Give me some scenarios where that would realistically happen so I can better understand this, because that right there sounds silly.

Claiming that randomness will bring inconsistency is also a redundant point, because of course randomness will be inconsistent. This is the whole nature of randomness. Even the slightest glance of consistency brought by a random system would be just that: random. You say that "it'll be too random and also inconsistent" but you don't really explain how that's such an issue. If matches are every week, then announce the next selection right after the match and give players that following week to prepare and practice for the next match. Where's the issue in operating that way?

jdc55 wrote:And Idk if you even know what that means, but it's the most balanced system. It takes every team out of their comfort zone, makes them focus on Maps and game types they don't specialize in and gives all players equal oppertunity to play in a match.

You can't theoretically have specialized teams then if you'll eventually force them to learn game types outside of their expertise. That makes those teams less specialized and more well-rounded. I said before allowing specialized teams was a flawed design, but this just eliminates the reason to even have specialized teams: eventually, those teams will not be specialized towards one game type anymore. It seems like your league is flawed on multiple levels, from team composition allowance to map selection in general, but this is to be expected when you try to make a competitive scene out of a game that's not competitive at all.


I feel like this is going way over your head. Every team is going to have flaws and have game types and maps they aren't particularly good at. I'm not saying teams should specialize in certain maps, I'm saying that all teams aren't going to be perfect and are not going to be perfectly well rounded. So the system makes teams focus on maps and types they aren't good at or don't specialize in. Every team is going to specialize in something. It's natural for that to happen. But no team is going to be perfectly well rounded. Every match will prove that because they focus on all Core 5. So if a team isn't very good at a particular game type, then that will show every single week or match with this system. Making the flaws of teams consistent unless they work on them.

Hikarikaze wrote:
jdc55 wrote:What you aren't understanding is what I'm arguing against. That is below

PL Format
Best of 3

Game 1: Random Game Type
Game 2: Random Game Type
Game 3: Random Game Type

It's way too random and brings no type of consistency.

You're equating map selection to game type selection. That's not what I'm arguing for.

I'll give you an example. Say game 1 happens to be a sniper map. Rather than you or anyone else picking something like stryde-sniper, the selection is picked at random. This eliminates bias in map selection and offers more map variety because the chance of selecting a different map that is also not as used is higher. An unfamiliar map will also force players to step out of their comfort zone and learn a brand new map. There's no better way to showcase a consistent skill level than to have players across different maps, especially those that players aren't accustomed to entirely. It also makes the entire competition more interesting because it's technically something new to see.


This is what I mean! There should be randomness. But game types shouldn't be random. Maps should only be random only within the game type category. What I'm arguing against is, randomness on the bigger scale. what PL did was throw game type categories out the window, and just made every single map random no matter the game type. That's what I'm arguing against. Maps should only be randomized within Game type categories. It should only be Best of 5, so every match focuses on all core 5 game types. So there's still team going out their comfort zone when playing.

And I don't think you understand how teams are formed in PL. I'm pretty sure they aren't going to let you choose anyone like in PWL. There's most likely going to be a draft. So even if you try to well round your team, other teams are going to pick players you are trying to focus on. So making a well rounded team isn't going to be easy at all. And so for this reason is why teams have to work on game types they don't specialize in, or in other words, "not good at".
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby Hikarikaze » 12 January 2019, 00:02

jdc55 wrote:I feel like this is going way over your head. Every team is going to have flaws and have game types and maps they aren't particularly good at. I'm not saying teams should specialize in certain maps, I'm saying that all teams aren't going to be perfect and are not going to be perfectly well rounded.

It feels like what I said went over your head, not the other way around. The point isn't to create a completely balanced team. The point is that you can't allow a team that specializes in a few areas and also complain that every player should have a fair/equal opportunity to play, when the entire competition itself extends beyond that specialty. That's a natural disadvantage for that team in those cases and contradicts what you want.

When you know very well that a competition is going to be more than something like snipers, why would anyone in their right mind ever focus on having a team comprised of mostly sniper pros and why would anyone even think that's a proper team composition not worth pointing out against? This is a fault that falls on both the person that organized the team roster and the people that allowed that team composition in.

If this competition were to be, say, 6v6 for example and there are 4-5 game modes, you most likely will want 1-2 players for each game mode on one team, not 3-4 players for one game mode and 1-2 for the rest.

jdc55 wrote:But game types shouldn't be random. Maps should only be random only within the game type category. What I'm arguing against is, randomness on the bigger scale. what PL did was throw game type categories out the window, and just made every single map random no matter the game type. That's what I'm arguing against. Maps should only be randomized within Game type categories. It should only be Best of 5, so every match focuses on all core 5 game types. So there's still team going out their comfort zone when playing.

Did you miss the part where I asked you how this was a problem? Because you keep dancing around this point without giving me any explanation as to how randomization is an issue. I even asked you to give me realistic scenarios because the way you explain it implies it was an issue of some degree before in the past. Why should I consider this a valid point? Just because you keep saying this doesn't mean it's a proper argument.

jdc55 wrote:And I don't think you understand how teams are formed in PL. I'm pretty sure they aren't going to let you choose anyone like in PWL. There's most likely going to be a draft.

You don't even sound sure about how team formation works yourself. "Most likely" doesn't necessarily mean that's how things will be.

jdc55 wrote:So even if you try to well round your team, other teams are going to pick players you are trying to focus on. So making a well rounded team isn't going to be easy at all. And so for this reason is why teams have to work on game types they don't specialize in, or in other words, "not good at".

This is a double sided issue. When players don't want to expand their skill set, you will end up with specialized players only to choose from. Choosing them will inevitably make your team a specialized team.

The main reason a team will be difficult to make well-rounded at first is usually because players themselves are not well-rounded. But if they compete in game modes that they don't excel in, they become more well-rounded over time due to being accustomed to those modes. This makes making a well-rounded team easier next time around and makes specialized teams less likely to appear. Your claim that making a well rounded team isn't going to be easy at all will eventually become false on this premise.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby Lance Ryder Wilson » 12 January 2019, 04:52

For some reason, I don't think this game can't be active and fun, like it was fun before.

Let me state some reasons, why I don't like this game:

1: Immaturity has reached a new level.
2: Game Masters have become extremely abusive.
3: Staff barely check reports.
4: Most of the maps are very bad nowadays.
5: Immature map titles.
6: This extreme vendetta of hate from PB2 active users towards me for me being a complete annoying troll person ages ago. I literally got banned in the wiki server, before I even entered it. :sorry:

Let me state some reasons, why I still play this game:

1: There maybe immature players, but that doesn't mean it is everywhere.
2: Playing some old maps are still fun.
3: ALE is improved.

Let me state some stuff, that can improve this game:

1: Clans, we really need them, since unofficial clans are becoming overpopulated.
2: More things in ALE like decorations, vehicles, etc.
3: Events.
4: Staff plays.
5: Lenient rules.
6: Player Points should be removed.
7: If you fall and die, it should not count as a death.
8: Melee weapons like crowbar, shovel, axe, hammer, etc. should be added.

That's all I wanna say. :thank:
@Ryder#2772
https://twitter.com/Ryder36833971
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby phsc » 12 January 2019, 06:09

Lance Ryder Wilson wrote:For some reason, I don't think this game can't be active and fun, like it was fun before.

maybe the fact youre not the target audience for this game is a big factor, but no, its the games fault!
Let me state some reasons, why I don't like this game:
1: Immaturity has reached a new level.

no it hasnt, its better in my opinion, but even then maturity is subjective, and i guess the average person would say it is better now than back then
2: Game Masters have become extremely abusive.

true, thats why private matches exist, even tho the best periods of pb2 where when there was no game masters in my opinion
3: Staff barely check reports.

probably true, even tho if you PM them or talk to them at discord they probably will, but the thing is, i imagine why, its really boring, most of the reports arent going to end in anything, etc
4: Most of the maps are very bad nowadays.

ignorance, pure ignorance, theres amazing maps and even more amazing map makers, what happens is that theres nobody to play complex or well designed maps, so people dont make them
5: Immature map titles.

this has been a thing for ages, deliciously exquisite pizza sauce back then it was even worse, but i think its better now too, less matches, more visibility, so in theory youre just getting to know that there are more immature map titles while youre playing but ok
6: This extreme vendetta of hate from PB2 active users towards me for me being a complete annoying troll person ages ago. I literally got banned in the wiki server, before I even entered it. :sorry:

we also should release serial killers because they wont kill anymore, yno
your actions are the only things that we sure know of, i dont know you and i wont lie i dont really care, imo ur just acting as some victim, im pretty sure most of the community doesnt or didnt like me at some point and wont lie i did probably things worse than you did, but meh, show change, i guess
Let me state some reasons, why I still play this game:

1: There maybe immature players, but that doesn't mean it is everywhere.

oh, just like any game!
2: Playing some old maps are still fun.

nostalgia hits hard yeah
3: ALE is improved.

as the average map quality and the skillcap for it, but yeah, newer maps < older maps because im saying so because i had good experiences!

Let me state some stuff, that can improve this game:

1: Clans, we really need them, since unofficial clans are becoming overpopulated.

overpopulated? not that, dark clan isnt what id consider a real clan and im the leader of it
anyway imo theres no reason to create a clan so people dont, im pretty sure there are small circlejerk around tho, in theory these can be called "clans" imo
2: More things in ALE like decorations, vehicles, etc.

great i guess, wouldnt change much imo, vehicles maybe but decorations didnt really add much other than maybe the lamps darkstar made
3: Events.

valid point i mentiond that like 4 times already in the last week or smth but its good to see people agree with the idea, even tho not developing it so they dont die like the older events did
4: Staff plays.

yeah, clearly a 20 year old is going to enjoy palying a game they played for years, imo we should just add more people to staff, like even if they arent that active, i mean why wouldnt like darkstar mrnat ditzy all these people who just are good people in a general way
5: Lenient rules.

imo they should be logarithmic or smth like that, hacked the game three times and want to be unbanned? deliciously exquisite pizza sauce you, oh you were trolling around and got banned? i guess u deserve a chance, but show it
6: Player Points should be removed.

why? what system in its place? its easy to say "lets remove a system that isnt perfect" but the big deal is, there is need for a system still
7: If you fall and die, it should not count as a death.

why? it just makes the game easier, what if someone shot you then you fell? what if you were being pressured by fire? what if oyu just deliciously exquisite pizza sauce suck and made a mistake?
8: Melee weapons like crowbar, shovel, axe, hammer, etc. should be added.

yeah lets add crowbars and shovels and axes and hammers and like modern meele weapons(crowbar and shovels arent weapons) to a futuristic as deliciously exquisite pizza sauce game because why not!


dont take this personally i just have no idea of who you are and imo youre saying a bunch of invalid stuff, if you think im wrong show me your FACTS AND LOGIC and great i guess
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby jdc55 » 12 January 2019, 07:08

Hikarikaze wrote:
jdc55 wrote:I feel like this is going way over your head. Every team is going to have flaws and have game types and maps they aren't particularly good at. I'm not saying teams should specialize in certain maps, I'm saying that all teams aren't going to be perfect and are not going to be perfectly well rounded.

It feels like what I said went over your head, not the other way around. The point isn't to create a completely balanced team. The point is that you can't allow a team that specializes in a few areas and also complain that every player should have a fair/equal opportunity to play, when the entire competition itself extends beyond that specialty. That's a natural disadvantage for that team in those cases and contradicts what you want.

When you know very well that a competition is going to be more than something like snipers, why would anyone in their right mind ever focus on having a team comprised of mostly sniper pros and why would anyone even think that's a proper team composition not worth pointing out against? This is a fault that falls on both the person that organized the team roster and the people that allowed that team composition in.

If this competition were to be, say, 6v6 for example and there are 4-5 game modes, you most likely will want 1-2 players for each game mode on one team, not 3-4 players for one game mode and 1-2 for the rest.

jdc55 wrote:But game types shouldn't be random. Maps should only be random only within the game type category. What I'm arguing against is, randomness on the bigger scale. what PL did was throw game type categories out the window, and just made every single map random no matter the game type. That's what I'm arguing against. Maps should only be randomized within Game type categories. It should only be Best of 5, so every match focuses on all core 5 game types. So there's still team going out their comfort zone when playing.

Did you miss the part where I asked you how this was a problem? Because you keep dancing around this point without giving me any explanation as to how randomization is an issue. I even asked you to give me realistic scenarios because the way you explain it implies it was an issue of some degree before in the past. Why should I consider this a valid point? Just because you keep saying this doesn't mean it's a proper argument.

jdc55 wrote:And I don't think you understand how teams are formed in PL. I'm pretty sure they aren't going to let you choose anyone like in PWL. There's most likely going to be a draft.

You don't even sound sure about how team formation works yourself. "Most likely" doesn't necessarily mean that's how things will be.

jdc55 wrote:So even if you try to well round your team, other teams are going to pick players you are trying to focus on. So making a well rounded team isn't going to be easy at all. And so for this reason is why teams have to work on game types they don't specialize in, or in other words, "not good at".

This is a double sided issue. When players don't want to expand their skill set, you will end up with specialized players only to choose from. Choosing them will inevitably make your team a specialized team.

The main reason a team will be difficult to make well-rounded at first is usually because players themselves are not well-rounded. But if they compete in game modes that they don't excel in, they become more well-rounded over time due to being accustomed to those modes. This makes making a well-rounded team easier next time around and makes specialized teams less likely to appear. Your claim that making a well rounded team isn't going to be easy at all will eventually become false on this premise.


Ok what are you even talking about now? I'm going off of how the Plazma League system was on recruiting players. I'm not talking about revamping the whole league. Idc if there's a draft or not. But I feel like there most likely will be one like there always was. So from that, that's where I'm creating my point. Let me put it in this way, because I don't know if you were in PL, so I feel like with you I have to go into a lot of detail. First off, if there's a draft [Which there most likely will be], all teams won't be well rounded ofc. There will be players who are going to be good at something and there will be players who will not be so good at all. Even if owners focus on well rounding their teams, it won't be perfect, because other owners are going to be doing the same thing. Therefore all teams will more than likely not be so good at a game mode or 2. Maybe even 3. But the others they may be good or "Specialize" in. I don't have a problem with that. With the system I just suggested, it puts them in a tougher spot and takes them completely out their comfort zone, because every match is literally every core 5 map type.Therefore all teams will have to work on their weaknesses. I really don't know where your getting all this "Specialized teams" from. I never said teams are going to be "specialized". I said teams will specialize in certain game modes no matter how you recruit. That's inevitable.


And this is where you misunderstood. I never said team owners are going to be focusing on certain game types. What I'm saying is, EVERY SINGLE TEAM WILL HAVE SOMETHING THEY ARE GOOD AT. Those things will be the game types they "Specialize" In. It does not matter how the team is formed, everyone will have a strong suite no matter how teams are made.

Facepalm Just a mega facepalm. I literally went over this even in my first post. When you do Best of 3 and Randomize maps no matter the game type, It brings no type of consistency. Wanna know why? Because we'll have a huge variety of maps. I didn't say why because all PL Players and people who were involved already knows this. Basically every single match will be different and unpredictable. It also makes it to where certain players aren't able to play. The players who aren't good at these maps have to sit out by Owners decision. And if the next week of maps are randomized, who the hell knows? The same type of maps may even be drawn again, and they'd have to sit out again. With my Best of 5, All Core 5 Format, everyone will have a opportunity to play in every match. and the maps will be more consistent and predictable, making it easier for teams to work on the game types they are weak in.


The draft...PL has always been like this and no one has a problem with it. So I doubt they'll throw it out the window.

WOW MAN! You really think so? -_-

And even if all players try to become better rounded, They still won't prevail or even bypass those who were originally good at a certain game mode. That's like taking Jkap who is a slow support OBJ player, and trying to transform him into a Fast SMG player, then putting him in the ring with Scump or John (The Best SMGs players in the game) And even if it does become easy, then my format should stay the same. And randomized map types still shouldn't be a thing. The whole league should focus on all Core 5. Every match needs to be Core 5. That's the whole competitive side of PB2 into every single match. All Core 5. And not some half ass Best of 3 Randomizer.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby Hikarikaze » 12 January 2019, 08:03

jdc55 wrote:Ok what are you even talking about now? I'm going off of how the Plazma League system was on recruiting players. I'm not talking about revamping the whole league.

Ah, so everything I say did go over your head because I was speaking on the premise of improving whatever scraps you call "PL/PWL/etc" like, you know, the original topic asked for. You're telling me now that you were going after a straw man this whole time?

jdc55 wrote:Idc if there's a draft or not.

This is a very informative opinion with a lot of substance to it.

jdc55 wrote:I really don't know where your getting all this "Specialized teams" from. I never said teams are going to be "specialized".

You literally just said it afterwards:

jdc55 wrote:I said teams will specialize in certain game modes no matter how you recruit. That's inevitable.

I didn't make this notion up out of thin air. The first person in this debate to mention the word "specialized" was you. I only responded based on the words you wrote yourself.

Also no, teams don't have to specialize in certain game modes if the players themselves are not specialized. This is basic knowledge. I'm not sure how much more simpler I have to explain that making a "specialized team" perform in areas outside of that team's expertise will eventually make them less specialized so no, teams at a certain point after competing for a certain amount of time will no longer become specialized.

jdc55 wrote:And this is where you misunderstood. I never said team owners are going to be focusing on certain game types.

Who said that you said that? Because I definitely didn't say that. Are you sure you know exactly what you're responding to? It sounds like you're going to attack another straw man.

jdc55 wrote:When you do Best of 3 and Randomize maps no matter the game type, It brings no type of consistency. Wanna know why? Because we'll have a huge variety of maps.

Again, how is this a problem? This is the third time I asked you and you still offer no explanation.

Variety is a good thing. It has ramifications that exist outside of your league too, such as more approved maps being exposed out to general competitive play. So again, for the fourth time, what is the problem with randomization? If it gives a huge variety, then what's so bad about it?

jdc55 wrote:I didn't say why because all PL Players and people who were involved already knows this.

What a garbage excuse. I'm not a PL player and I'm not involved, therefore I don't know it. Why do you think I'm asking you if not for the reason that I don't know prior to asking?

jdc55 wrote:Basically every single match will be different and unpredictable.

And this is a bad thing? This is a competition of skill; unpredictability is a constant in every match all of the time. This is why prediction and reading the game properly is a skill in itself. What skills are you testing with this competition besides the general game knowledge of aiming and shooting at people with different weapons? That can always be done outside the league.

jdc55 wrote:It also makes it to where certain players aren't able to play. The players who aren't good at these maps have to sit out by Owners decision. And if the next week of maps are randomized, who the hell knows? The same type of maps may even be drawn again, and they'd have to sit out again.

Man, you really can't read. I asked you to explain how countless players wouldn't be able to play. There is nothing barring players from playing, even on maps those players aren't good in. A team owner's decision is separate; that can be brought about in any match, but there's nothing inherent that blocks people off from playing in randomization. I even asked for examples so more light would be shed and the issue you keep implying exists would be better understood. Do you need a refresher? Or do you want me to translate this in a language you understand?

This is what I literally asked you to do:
Hikarikaze wrote:Explain to me how countless players would be unable to play if randomization was a thing unless you happened to announce what was upcoming at a very inconvenient time. Give me some scenarios where that would realistically happen so I can better understand this, because that right there sounds silly.


That isn't rocket science. Instead you go ahead and repeat the same thing you've been saying to me ad infinitum that I've been requesting an explanation for in order to get clarity on that side of the debate. The fact you still haven't managed to back up that claim tells me that this point isn't valid and thus I'm not going to believe that point to be true regardless of how many times you write it out in your half-baked responses until you do back it up.

jdc55 wrote:It does not matter how the team is formed, everyone will have a strong suite no matter how teams are made.

Yes, it literally does. In any game with roles in it, team composition does matter. That's why there are roles, and the composition of the team is what gives those roles value. Even in games with no set in stone roles like CoD, professional teams create roles of their own to formulate their strategy around (flankers, direct pushes, etc)

Look back to my OW example a few posts back: a team of all supports. Against a proper team, that team has a smaller chance of winning because of that team composition alone. These are equally skilled players on both teams. If team composition really doesn't matter, then the support team should be able to win just as easily, but they don't.

Similarly, if you have a team where a majority excels in sniper maps, how can you expect that team to do well in a game type like arena? You can't, because that majority's skill doesn't encompass that map type and their current skill set isn't as compatible with this game mode. If team composition really didn't matter, a snipers-majority team would easily be able to crush an arena-majority team and the chances of winning for either team would be closer to 50/50, but realistically, this isn't the case. Explain to me why that is.

jdc55 wrote:With my Best of 5, All Core 5 Format, everyone will have a opportunity to play in every match. and the maps will be more consistent and predictable, making it easier for teams to work on the game types they are weak in.

It's funny how you can easily boast about the positives of your "system," but lock up in place when you can't properly explain how things end up or operate without this system in place. The things you compliment your own system over are possible solutions to problems, yet you can't even describe the problems this solves.

jdc55 wrote:The draft...PL has always been like this and no one has a problem with it. So I doubt they'll throw it out the window.

Just because people are fine with something doesn't mean that thing isn't flawed or improper.

jdc55 wrote:WOW MAN! You really think so? -_-

What is this even a response to? lol

jdc55 wrote:And randomized map types still shouldn't be a thing. The whole league should focus on all Core 5. Every match needs to be Core 5. That's the whole competitive side of PB2 into every single match. All Core 5. And not some half ass Best of 3 Randomizer.

Translation: I'm going to keep repeating this same thing over and over again because it's clearly true.

Based off what I read from you, I'd be really concerned if you had anything at all to do with anything competitive in this game, especially from an organizational standpoint. To me, you don't seem qualified in the slightest to handle it. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby jdc55 » 12 January 2019, 19:34

Hikarikaze wrote:
jdc55 wrote:Ok what are you even talking about now? I'm going off of how the Plazma League system was on recruiting players. I'm not talking about revamping the whole league.

Ah, so everything I say did go over your head because I was speaking on the premise of improving whatever scraps you call "PL/PWL/etc" like, you know, the original topic asked for. You're telling me now that you were going after a straw man this whole time?

jdc55 wrote:Idc if there's a draft or not.

This is a very informative opinion with a lot of substance to it.

jdc55 wrote:I really don't know where your getting all this "Specialized teams" from. I never said teams are going to be "specialized".

You literally just said it afterwards:

jdc55 wrote:I said teams will specialize in certain game modes no matter how you recruit. That's inevitable.

I didn't make this notion up out of thin air. The first person in this debate to mention the word "specialized" was you. I only responded based on the words you wrote yourself.

Also no, teams don't have to specialize in certain game modes if the players themselves are not specialized. This is basic knowledge. I'm not sure how much more simpler I have to explain that making a "specialized team" perform in areas outside of that team's expertise will eventually make them less specialized so no, teams at a certain point after competing for a certain amount of time will no longer become specialized.

jdc55 wrote:And this is where you misunderstood. I never said team owners are going to be focusing on certain game types.

Who said that you said that? Because I definitely didn't say that. Are you sure you know exactly what you're responding to? It sounds like you're going to attack another straw man.

jdc55 wrote:When you do Best of 3 and Randomize maps no matter the game type, It brings no type of consistency. Wanna know why? Because we'll have a huge variety of maps.

Again, how is this a problem? This is the third time I asked you and you still offer no explanation.

Variety is a good thing. It has ramifications that exist outside of your league too, such as more approved maps being exposed out to general competitive play. So again, for the fourth time, what is the problem with randomization? If it gives a huge variety, then what's so bad about it?

jdc55 wrote:I didn't say why because all PL Players and people who were involved already knows this.

What a garbage excuse. I'm not a PL player and I'm not involved, therefore I don't know it. Why do you think I'm asking you if not for the reason that I don't know prior to asking?

jdc55 wrote:Basically every single match will be different and unpredictable.

And this is a bad thing? This is a competition of skill; unpredictability is a constant in every match all of the time. This is why prediction and reading the game properly is a skill in itself. What skills are you testing with this competition besides the general game knowledge of aiming and shooting at people with different weapons? That can always be done outside the league.

jdc55 wrote:It also makes it to where certain players aren't able to play. The players who aren't good at these maps have to sit out by Owners decision. And if the next week of maps are randomized, who the hell knows? The same type of maps may even be drawn again, and they'd have to sit out again.

Man, you really can't read. I asked you to explain how countless players wouldn't be able to play. There is nothing barring players from playing, even on maps those players aren't good in. A team owner's decision is separate; that can be brought about in any match, but there's nothing inherent that blocks people off from playing in randomization. I even asked for examples so more light would be shed and the issue you keep implying exists would be better understood. Do you need a refresher? Or do you want me to translate this in a language you understand?

This is what I literally asked you to do:
Hikarikaze wrote:Explain to me how countless players would be unable to play if randomization was a thing unless you happened to announce what was upcoming at a very inconvenient time. Give me some scenarios where that would realistically happen so I can better understand this, because that right there sounds silly.


That isn't rocket science. Instead you go ahead and repeat the same thing you've been saying to me ad infinitum that I've been requesting an explanation for in order to get clarity on that side of the debate. The fact you still haven't managed to back up that claim tells me that this point isn't valid and thus I'm not going to believe that point to be true regardless of how many times you write it out in your half-baked responses until you do back it up.

jdc55 wrote:It does not matter how the team is formed, everyone will have a strong suite no matter how teams are made.

Yes, it literally does. In any game with roles in it, team composition does matter. That's why there are roles, and the composition of the team is what gives those roles value. Even in games with no set in stone roles like CoD, professional teams create roles of their own to formulate their strategy around (flankers, direct pushes, etc)

Look back to my OW example a few posts back: a team of all supports. Against a proper team, that team has a smaller chance of winning because of that team composition alone. These are equally skilled players on both teams. If team composition really doesn't matter, then the support team should be able to win just as easily, but they don't.

Similarly, if you have a team where a majority excels in sniper maps, how can you expect that team to do well in a game type like arena? You can't, because that majority's skill doesn't encompass that map type and their current skill set isn't as compatible with this game mode. If team composition really didn't matter, a snipers-majority team would easily be able to crush an arena-majority team and the chances of winning for either team would be closer to 50/50, but realistically, this isn't the case. Explain to me why that is.

jdc55 wrote:With my Best of 5, All Core 5 Format, everyone will have a opportunity to play in every match. and the maps will be more consistent and predictable, making it easier for teams to work on the game types they are weak in.

It's funny how you can easily boast about the positives of your "system," but lock up in place when you can't properly explain how things end up or operate without this system in place. The things you compliment your own system over are possible solutions to problems, yet you can't even describe the problems this solves.

jdc55 wrote:The draft...PL has always been like this and no one has a problem with it. So I doubt they'll throw it out the window.

Just because people are fine with something doesn't mean that thing isn't flawed or improper.

jdc55 wrote:WOW MAN! You really think so? -_-

What is this even a response to? lol

jdc55 wrote:And randomized map types still shouldn't be a thing. The whole league should focus on all Core 5. Every match needs to be Core 5. That's the whole competitive side of PB2 into every single match. All Core 5. And not some half ass Best of 3 Randomizer.

Translation: I'm going to keep repeating this same thing over and over again because it's clearly true.

Based off what I read from you, I'd be really concerned if you had anything at all to do with anything competitive in this game, especially from an organizational standpoint. To me, you don't seem qualified in the slightest to handle it. Just my 2 cents.


I honestly think I'm speaking gibberish to you.

WHY BEST OF 3 RANDOMIZER IS A BAD CHOICE
Because every single match it focuses on different parts of the competitive side of the game. And it shouldn't be that way at all. Doing this is like turning CGSO eSports into pistol only and occasionally adding a buy system. This is like basketball but the first 5 games, you don't have to dribble. Every single match should be consistent and focus on Core 5 game modes. You say I'm not giving you reasons, but they're in your face. If you think Snipers should come up twice in a best of 3, then you most definitely yourself aren't qualified to even give your 2 cents. I don't even think you understand what I'm saying. I'm speaking to Tempus about this flawed system, because he was in the PL chat as a mod. Even players weren't happy with this system. It's not consistent, and any map can be drawn no matter the game type. The only way it's good for any map to be drawn is if there's class setups. We don't have class setups. So when a map is drawn, you use the weapons on that map. Am I making sense to you now? How is this bad you say? Because it doesn't focus on Core 5 map types. Every match should be Core 5 map types. It's way more balanced and it focuses on the whole competitive side in every match. It doesn't do a Half ass Best of 3 consisted of 3 random maps out of 13 maps. The Only time maps should be randomized is within the Map type categories. And I don't know if those words will make you comprehend what I mean. So ig I need to give you another example.

MATCH
Game 1: Specified Map Type 1
Random Map

Game 2: Specified Map Type 2
Random Map

Game 3: Specified Map Type 3
Random Map

Game 4: Specified Map Type 4
Random Map

Game 5: Specified Map Type 5
Random Map


"I don't seem qualified". Sir with this system we had exactly 6 Successful events with top players and clans involved. GeNo, YRN, Cyko etc... I don't see why random people like you who knows literally nothing about pb2 competitive to even say that. Lol. I focus on all map types every match to balance the league out. I give everyone fair opportunity to play, and still made it as competitive as it could be. My system was the best system. No one ever complained about it. But with PL's system, everyone did. And the reasons are above.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby Hikarikaze » 12 January 2019, 23:15

jdc55 wrote:Because every single match it focuses on different parts of the competitive side of the game. And it shouldn't be that way at all.

Yes, it should. There is a reason those different parts exist. If there's no focus or attention directed to the "different parts," what's the point in having them? You can't have a coin and only focus on one side of it when there's another side you can also focus on.

This is a competition of skill, again, so the competition should focus on the various parts of the game that require different skills to succeed in.

jdc55 wrote:Doing this is like turning CGSO eSports into pistol only and occasionally adding a buy system.

This is a terrible example, because weapons are a core component of CSGO. You're arguing against random maps and game types, so use an example from CSGO relating to that.

And seriously, you're really going to compare an actual competitive game like CSGO to a game where the word "competitive" has no meaning? In CSGO, every map can be used for general competitive play and every weapon is viable enough to kill someone because every weapon uses the same general skill set plus or minus a few extra skills associated with specific weapons. Every player has a chance to win equally because there's only one gameplay skill curve, which is universal across the entire game.

jdc55 wrote:This is like basketball but the first 5 games, you don't have to dribble.

Interesting example, considering professional competitions don't change intrinsic and grounded rules in a game on a major scale.

You're not arguing this properly. You're now equating random map/type selection to random rule allowances now. This would actually be like playing on random courts each match, and for random game types, it'd be like playing a normal game first, and then playing up to 21 the next. Again, basketball has only one general skill set that's universal across the game types it has, but that's because those other game variants (key word being variants) are built around the rules of basketball, the same way the different map types are built around the core gameplay of PB2.

However, the major problem with PB2 is that there's a plethora of maps that focus on specific parts of that core skill set, so this "universal" skill set ends up being divided into different, random pieces in every map. There's no single skill set you can easily apply to in any map, and thus you can't compare this game to anything like CSGO or even basketball, because those two latter games don't divide up their skill sets randomly across different portions of the game. Everything stays simple and universal, even across different game types because again, those game types are variants that don't exist to turn those games into something entirely different. With PB2, you can make it seem like a different game with an entirely different skill set attached to it.

jdc55 wrote:If you think Snipers should come up twice in a best of 3, then you most definitely yourself aren't qualified to even give your 2 cents.

Nope, I don't think that at all nor did I ever say selections should come up more than once in a row. I appreciate the random assumption however.

Duplicated selections can simply be fixed by randomly selecting a mode again until a duplicate isn't selected. That's not rocket science. Perhaps you haven't played an actual competitive game before, but I have, so clearly I have experience and knowledge in what I'm talking about. The fact you're not really understanding my point of view shows you don't have knowledge on proper competitive formats and systems.

jdc55 wrote:How is this bad you say? Because it doesn't focus on Core 5 map types. Every match should be Core 5 map types.

I'm seeing you throw this term around a lot. Who are you to decide what the 5 main game modes are in this game? Because according to this game, the only main modes are DM, cooperative, and TDM, by technicality.

"How is this bad, you say? [insert repeated claim here]"

See anything wrong with this explanation?

jdc55 wrote:I'm speaking to Tempus about this flawed system, because he was in the PL chat as a mod.

Alright, and I'm speaking to you now because the topic wanted suggestions and I gave them before you entered this conversation.

jdc55 wrote:It doesn't do a Half ass Best of 3 consisted of 3 random maps out of 13 maps.

Who said it had to be "best of 3?" lol

I don't even have to write anything because you keep on automatically arguing against words nobody but you have said so far. Sounds like you're just yelling at yourself now

jdc55 wrote:"I don't seem qualified". Sir with this system we had exactly 6 Successful events with top players and clans involved.

I could care less. Your track record isn't going to change my opinion of you. You still sound unqualified and your responses just make yourself look worse. Sorry you can't seem to handle an opinion though lol

jdc55 wrote:I focus on all map types every match to balance the league out.

jdc55 wrote:Because it doesn't focus on Core 5 map types.

jdc55 wrote:Because it doesn't focus on Core 5 map types.

jdc55 wrote:Because it doesn't focus on Core 5 map types.


Could you say that again? Because this game has way more than 5 "map types." Now you're just contradicting yourself. Remember this little quote you made?

jdc55 wrote:Let's be real people, How many people would specialize in Rockets out of any team in Plazma League. I'd say up to 1.. Maybe 2. I also feel that Rockets isn't really a competitive weapon. I don't mind rockets being added to a mix, like in Warfare or Arena, But a Rockets only map is a no.

You say you focus on all map types yet outright refuse to include a map type in. Sure doesn't sound like focusing on all map types to me.

jdc55 wrote:My system was the best system.

Arrogance: 100

And that's another reason not to take you seriously. Hopefully you realize my low opinion of you is made by none other than you on my behalf.

Oh, and since it's very obvious you know next to nothing on competitive games and competitive leagues in general, a big reason competitive leagues in other games tend to exist is because those games tend to literally be competitive. PB2 isn't competitive in the slightest when it comes to ranking and sorting "player skill." Just nailing the word "competitive" on like you do doesn't make it competitive and you'd have to be naive as ever to even believe PB2's current state will allow a proper competitive league to flourish up to its full potential when it can't even allow a proper ranking system to exist.

Now next time you want to respond still, make sure you respond to each individual part piece by piece rather than lazily quoting my entire post. Maybe I will take you an undecillionth of a percent seriously at best.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby jdc55 » 13 January 2019, 00:44

Hikarikaze wrote:
jdc55 wrote:Because every single match it focuses on different parts of the competitive side of the game. And it shouldn't be that way at all.

Yes, it should. There is a reason those different parts exist. If there's no focus or attention directed to the "different parts," what's the point in having them? You can't have a coin and only focus on one side of it when there's another side you can also focus on.

This is a competition of skill, again, so the competition should focus on the various parts of the game that require different skills to succeed in.

jdc55 wrote:Doing this is like turning CGSO eSports into pistol only and occasionally adding a buy system.

This is a terrible example, because weapons are a core component of CSGO. You're arguing against random maps and game types, so use an example from CSGO relating to that.

And seriously, you're really going to compare an actual competitive game like CSGO to a game where the word "competitive" has no meaning? In CSGO, every map can be used for general competitive play and every weapon is viable enough to kill someone because every weapon uses the same general skill set plus or minus a few extra skills associated with specific weapons. Every player has a chance to win equally because there's only one gameplay skill curve, which is universal across the entire game.

jdc55 wrote:This is like basketball but the first 5 games, you don't have to dribble.

Interesting example, considering professional competitions don't change intrinsic and grounded rules in a game on a major scale.

You're not arguing this properly. You're now equating random map/type selection to random rule allowances now. This would actually be like playing on random courts each match, and for random game types, it'd be like playing a normal game first, and then playing up to 21 the next. Again, basketball has only one general skill set that's universal across the game types it has, but that's because those other game variants (key word being variants) are built around the rules of basketball, the same way the different map types are built around the core gameplay of PB2.

However, the major problem with PB2 is that there's a plethora of maps that focus on specific parts of that core skill set, so this "universal" skill set ends up being divided into different, random pieces in every map. There's no single skill set you can easily apply to in any map, and thus you can't compare this game to anything like CSGO or even basketball, because those two latter games don't divide up their skill sets randomly across different portions of the game. Everything stays simple and universal, even across different game types because again, those game types are variants that don't exist to turn those games into something entirely different. With PB2, you can make it seem like a different game with an entirely different skill set attached to it.

jdc55 wrote:If you think Snipers should come up twice in a best of 3, then you most definitely yourself aren't qualified to even give your 2 cents.

Nope, I don't think that at all nor did I ever say selections should come up more than once in a row. I appreciate the random assumption however.

Duplicated selections can simply be fixed by randomly selecting a mode again until a duplicate isn't selected. That's not rocket science. Perhaps you haven't played an actual competitive game before, but I have, so clearly I have experience and knowledge in what I'm talking about. The fact you're not really understanding my point of view shows you don't have knowledge on proper competitive formats and systems.

jdc55 wrote:How is this bad you say? Because it doesn't focus on Core 5 map types. Every match should be Core 5 map types.

I'm seeing you throw this term around a lot. Who are you to decide what the 5 main game modes are in this game? Because according to this game, the only main modes are DM, cooperative, and TDM, by technicality.

"How is this bad, you say? [insert repeated claim here]"

See anything wrong with this explanation?

jdc55 wrote:I'm speaking to Tempus about this flawed system, because he was in the PL chat as a mod.

Alright, and I'm speaking to you now because the topic wanted suggestions and I gave them before you entered this conversation.

jdc55 wrote:It doesn't do a Half ass Best of 3 consisted of 3 random maps out of 13 maps.

Who said it had to be "best of 3?" lol

I don't even have to write anything because you keep on automatically arguing against words nobody but you have said so far. Sounds like you're just yelling at yourself now

jdc55 wrote:"I don't seem qualified". Sir with this system we had exactly 6 Successful events with top players and clans involved.

I could care less. Your track record isn't going to change my opinion of you. You still sound unqualified and your responses just make yourself look worse. Sorry you can't seem to handle an opinion though lol

jdc55 wrote:I focus on all map types every match to balance the league out.

jdc55 wrote:Because it doesn't focus on Core 5 map types.

jdc55 wrote:Because it doesn't focus on Core 5 map types.

jdc55 wrote:Because it doesn't focus on Core 5 map types.


Could you say that again? Because this game has way more than 5 "map types." Now you're just contradicting yourself. Remember this little quote you made?

jdc55 wrote:Let's be real people, How many people would specialize in Rockets out of any team in Plazma League. I'd say up to 1.. Maybe 2. I also feel that Rockets isn't really a competitive weapon. I don't mind rockets being added to a mix, like in Warfare or Arena, But a Rockets only map is a no.

You say you focus on all map types yet outright refuse to include a map type in. Sure doesn't sound like focusing on all map types to me.

jdc55 wrote:My system was the best system.

Arrogance: 100

And that's another reason not to take you seriously. Hopefully you realize my low opinion of you is made by none other than you on my behalf.

Oh, and since it's very obvious you know next to nothing on competitive games and competitive leagues in general, a big reason competitive leagues in other games tend to exist is because those games tend to literally be competitive. PB2 isn't competitive in the slightest when it comes to ranking and sorting "player skill." Just nailing the word "competitive" on like you do doesn't make it competitive and you'd have to be naive as ever to even believe PB2's current state will allow a proper competitive league to flourish up to its full potential when it can't even allow a proper ranking system to exist.

Now next time you want to respond still, make sure you respond to each individual part piece by piece rather than lazily quoting my entire post. Maybe I will take you an undecillionth of a percent seriously at best.


Why should I realize your low opinion on me? My system worked best. My events were successful. You're the one who should realize my low opinion on you. Someone who hasn't been in any form present in the competitive community. Every thing you say sounds like you don't know anything about PB2 Competitive, because I'm just being real. You don't. Not trying to be arrogant, but it's just true. You literally have a system that people don't complain about vs a system people constantly complain about. Even that reason alone is enough to tell which one would work out best. How can you argue that a system to where all map types are played in each match [Which allows equal opportunity for everyone to play] is worse than a complained about and obviously flawed system? And your right, it does feel like I'm arguing with myself. It's like talking to a brick wall honestly. Lmfao. I'm sorry but you don't even know what I mean by "Map types". Never did I say a Map type is "COOP, TDM". And you should care for my track record. Because it showed my system worked. Just because "you don't care" doesn't make my system less reliable. Anyways, a map type is basically what weapons the map consist of. So if a map has snipers only, then the map type is Snipers. I'm sorry but please don't act like you know how to run a Competitive league, when you have 0 idea what your talking about. Maybe I am arrogant right now. And maybe I have to be arrogant to set a more perfect league everyone can enjoy. So I really don't care myself how you feel about me. You obviously aren't fit to even put your 2 cents in what is good and what is bad for competitive. You have 0 experience, and I have all the experience anyone has ever had. So tell me, am I still unfit? After I ran 6 successful events and tournaments?

BOTTOM LINE
My system allows the whole Competitive side of PB2 to be played in every match. It allows randomness you so desperately want [Yet you keep trying to argue like what? Lol] And it allows equal playing opportunity for all players no matter what maps they are good at or work on. And it's balanced. Killing 4 birds in one stone Now please stop arguing because your obviously an amateur who's trying to sound smart, yet you know literally nothing about PB2 Competitive.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby Hikarikaze » 13 January 2019, 01:54

jdc55 wrote:[...]

Hikarikaze wrote:Now next time you want to respond still, make sure you respond to each individual part piece by piece rather than lazily quoting my entire post. Maybe I will take you an undecillionth of a percent seriously at best.

You really seem to lack reading comprehension. I said don't quote my post in its entirety and yet you still did.

jdc55 wrote:Why should I realize your low opinion on me? My system worked best. My events were successful.

Just because it "worked" doesn't mean it can't be better, which is why I made suggestions in the first place. You're the one going all out to try to prove that your system works wonderfully by constantly repeating it to me.

You should realize my opinion on you because arrogance leads to downfall. You don't realize that now but you will eventually, and it won't be a pleasant feeling for you if and when you really do realize it. Take a page out of how I'm approaching you; it'll be in your own benefit.

jdc55 wrote:You're the one who should realize my low opinion on you. Someone who hasn't been in any form present in the competitive community.

Unlike you, I don't give a damn what you or anyone thinks about me because how people see me doesn't affect me in the slightest.

This is where your ignorance really starts to shine: just by saying I haven't had any presence in the competitive community. Little do you know, I actually had approved maps that were well-received by other credible and good mapmakers that had approved maps as well. I didn't have a presence as a player but I sure did have a good presence in giving those players the places to have a presence in. Someone like you wouldn't acknowledge that however because you're too arrogant to see anything else but the things you tie yourself to.

I said this before and I'll gladly say it to your face too:
Hikarikaze wrote:I'm a person that gives you the ground to be a competitor in.


You desperately need a wake-up call. You can easily ask who I am and then say that I have no presence, but let's talk about your presence. Who are you? Your post history says you're just a flippant, bipolar ignoramus who tries his best to try to even reach the bare minimum of being a troll by having a bipolar relationship with this game, calling it trash on one end and then flipping immediately to act like you give concern to this game by bringing up this so-called league of yours. That same post history says you aren't even original because you at one point suggest to copy and paste a CoD gamemode entirely. You wonder why I have a low opinion of you; this topic is just the icing on the cake for me.

You say I have no presence in the "competitive community," but I've done far more things you can't even count to compared to you. Forget the competitive community; my presence in this entire community period is more vast than yours. The things you brag about, I have quadruple the things I can brag about, but I don't brag about them, because I'm not that insecure to constantly bring up all of the things I've done at every possible moment. You got two things to brag about? Good, I have eight things to brag about. So what? I can criticize you and your league day and night without stopping because I can and I will like I had from the start. If you have a problem with it, then you and I can continue this discussion just fine; you claim something, and I will respond to it like I've done here, but if I claim something and you can't back it up, consider that discussion over.

This is borderline ad hominem but two can play at that game as well.

jdc55 wrote:You literally have a system that people don't complain about vs a system people constantly complain about. Even that reason alone is enough to tell which one would work out best.

Ah yes, the classic argumentum ad populum fallacy, where it's assumed that something is proper or correct just because people accept it.

I'm not interested in repeating things honestly but for you, you seem to really require things repeated to you, so I'll make an exception:
Hikarikaze wrote:Just because people are fine with something doesn't mean that thing isn't flawed or improper.


By this logic, my constant "complaining," if you can call it that, means your current system is garbage and wouldn't work out best, yet you don't regard it as such. That means you go against your own logic and now your argument is getting tangled up.

jdc55 wrote:How can you argue that a system to where all map types are played in each match [Which allows equal opportunity for everyone to play] is worse than a complained about and obviously flawed system?

Have you been paying attention? I've been showing you how you can argue that. But everything I'm saying is flying over your head, even after I break it down to simple terms.

jdc55 wrote:Lmfao. I'm sorry but you don't even know what I mean by "Map types". Never did I say a Map type is "COOP, TDM".

Ah yes, the person with no credibility in mapmaking is going to lecture and educate a mapmaker on what map types are. Beautiful argument.

First of all, I never said the map types are TDM/DM/etc. This is where you screwed up big time. I said the game types are those. You're the one running around equating the two together. I should be sorry only because you're arguing against straw men and not to me.

Do you need a quote to refresh your attention span?

Hikarikaze wrote:Who are you to decide what the 5 main game modes are in this game? Because according to this game, the only main modes are DM, cooperative, and TDM, by technicality.

Where do you see the term "map type" anywhere? I see the phrase "game mode" but not what you're seeing.

jdc55 wrote:And you should care for my track record.

Nah, I shouldn't, I don't still, and I won't in the future. You don't even know about my track record yet you're acting like you know so much more than me on competitiveness, so why should I remotely give a damn about yours?

jdc55 wrote:I'm sorry but please don't act like you know how to run a Competitive league, when you have 0 idea what your talking about.

Follow your own advice, then talk to me.

jdc55 wrote:You obviously aren't fit to even put your 2 cents in what is good and what is bad for competitive. You have 0 experience, and I have all the experience anyone has ever had.

"I say you have zero experience, so it must be true!"

You're funny, and that's not a compliment.

jdc55 wrote:So tell me, am I still unfit?

Yep. Forget unfit, "incompetent" would be a compliment for you.

jdc55 wrote:Now please stop arguing because your obviously an amateur who's trying to sound smart, yet you know literally nothing about PB2 Competitive.

It's a good thing I really "don't know" because if I did know, I'd sound just as ignorant as you right now trying to make a competitive mode out of a game that needs an urgent rework to even be slightly competitive.

I love conversing with people like you that think they know everything there is just because they had one success. No wonder you can't see my point of view; you're too blinded by your ego that you can't even see my words fly over your head. That's some crazy stuff right there.

But I must admit, the amount of truthfulness in how you cry "you're just an amateur" is astounding. It's inspirational even. I aspire to be so truthful and down to earth like those very factual and truthful responses. Reading this makes me contemplate on how my responses are wrong, lacking logical sense, and coherence on an astral level. Rather than saying this, I should be saying "you know literally nothing about PB2 competitive" because it's the great amounts of vast truthfulness that adds the immense amount of weight to the argument. Not facts, or proof, or anything. Damn, I really approached things wrong this whole time, then again I'm not godlike or anything. Perhaps I should see myself this way too so I can win against every argument by saying the other person doesn't know anything and that I know everything there is to know. Truly astonishing.

Oh, and I'm just playing, jdc55. You know I love you kappa
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby jdc55 » 13 January 2019, 06:37

Sorry, I really don't know how this quoting thing works. Okay so first off, let's talk about how you didn't even listen to what my initial proposal was.

Hikarikaze wrote:Who said it had to be "best of 3?" lol

I'm assuming it'll be Best of 5 then. aka (Core 5)

Hikarikaze wrote:Duplicated selections can simply be fixed by randomly selecting a mode again until a duplicate isn't selected


Put those 2 things together, and what do you have? My system. I'm actually in tears. It's kinda as if I'm watching my child grow up and finally understand life. But also as if my child still doesn't acknowledge his father. But there you have it. You just came up with the same system I've literally been proposing this whole time. I think you need to go back and reread everything I just said and compare it what what you just said above. Then come back at me again.

Hikarikaze wrote:"How is this bad, you say? [insert repeated claim here]"

I mean, if you ask me.. It's a pretty good claim. Don't blame me because some people don't listen.



Hikarikaze wrote:I love conversing with people like you that think they know everything there is just because they had one success.

One Success? Make that 6.

Hikarikaze wrote:Where do you see the term "map type" anywhere? I see the phrase "game mode" but not what you're seeing.

I mean well, I never said anything about Game modes sir.. Idk where you even got that from. You may wanna reread all my post.

Hikarikaze wrote:By this logic, my constant "complaining," if you can call it that, means your current system is garbage

Lol, Wow this comment aged well.. Really well.

Hikarikaze wrote:That same post history says you aren't even original because you at one point suggest to copy and paste a CoD gamemode entirely. You wonder why I have a low opinion of you; this topic is just the icing on the cake for me.

Oh that uplink thing? Oh that was just all fun and games. I'm a big fan of Cod though. Best FPS Franchise.

Hikarikaze wrote:Yep. Forget unfit, "incompetent" would be a compliment for you.

Lol 6 successful events would say otherwise. :D

Hikarikaze wrote:Ah yes, the classic argumentum ad populum fallacy, where it's assumed that something is proper or correct just because people accept it.

I mean yea.. Gotta make the players happy don't you? Otherwise you'll end up like PB2 Champions League. :thank:

Hikarikaze wrote:because I'm not that insecure to constantly bring up all of the things I've done

Idk man, I felt like I had to because you don't seem know a lot of things man. I thought bringing it up would make you realize, I know what I'm talking about. But ig being arrogance isn't the answer for brick walls. That's my fault.

Hikarikaze wrote:Oh, and I'm just playing, jdc55. You know I love you kappa

;)
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby Hikarikaze » 13 January 2019, 07:39

jdc55 wrote:Put those 2 things together, and what do you have? My system.

Wait a minute, you were arguing against this. That scenario would still have the randomization you yourself didn't want. So does that mean you're arguing for the same thing you're arguing against? lol

jdc55 wrote:I'm actually in tears. It's kinda as if I'm watching my child grow up and finally understand life. But also as if my child still doesn't acknowledge his father.

What a cringy response. Not in your best favor to compare me like that and expect me to take you seriously.

jdc55 wrote:You just came up with the same system I've literally been proposing this whole time. I think you need to go back and reread everything I just said and compare it what what you just said above. Then come back at me again.

No, I've described what I was talking about with this being additional clarity, the same thing you were arguing against. What you're saying is that you now suddenly agree with my side which is contradictory to your entire argument.

jdc55 wrote:I think you need to go back and reread everything I just said and compare it what what you just said above. Then come back at me again.

I'm still on the same tangent I've been on. You've been jumping on multiple tangents and now apparently you're on my tangent. I think you need to reread what you've been writing because you just went in circles with your argument.

jdc55 wrote:I mean, if you ask me.. It's a pretty good claim. Don't blame me because some people don't listen.

Good claims have good arguments. A basic understanding in logical arguments will tell you that. Your argument isn't good so your claim isn't very valid.

jdc55 wrote:One Success? Make that 6.

One being the minimum. I could've said six if I wanted to be specific and accurate.

jdc55 wrote:I mean well, I never said anything about Game modes sir.. Idk where you even got that from. You may wanna reread all my post.

Yeah, you're right because I'm the one that said it. Again with your straw man fallacies. You telling me to reread what you wrote is wasting the time you could be spending rereading what I wrote so you can reply to what I wrote correctly.

jdc55 wrote:Lol, Wow this comment aged well.. Really well.

You missed the entire purpose and point of that comment. It's a counterargument.

jdc55 wrote:Oh that uplink thing? Oh that was just all fun and games. I'm a big fan of Cod though. Best FPS Franchise.

Expected that response. Doesn't change the fact you're not original enough to avoid ripping other games' ideas/modes.

jdc55 wrote:Lol 6 successful events would say otherwise.

Look at you trying to disprove an opinion. This is an amazing counterargument.

jdc55 wrote:I mean yea.. Gotta make the players happy don't you? Otherwise you'll end up like PB2 Champions League.

Again you missed the entire point. Basing your argument on a fallacy is a bad thing, just so you know.

jdc55 wrote:Idk man, I felt like I had to because you don't seem know a lot of things man. I thought bringing it up would make you realize, I know what I'm talking about. But ig being arrogance isn't the answer for brick walls. That's my fault.

Except you don't sound like you know anything about what you're talking about. You're the brick wall in this debate if you completely missed the entire point of my counterarguments. I mean, you don't even realize your argument is fallacious front and back, and you still roll with it cluelessly. From what I've seen, you only see things on a surface level. It's in your best interest to simply drop out of the discussion from here if that's the case.

And adding a winking emote at the end just solidifies my point that you're clueless if you don't understand the purpose of that phrase. I can forgive not getting the reference but the tone shift is obvious enough to illustrate the intent behind it. I can remain entertained enough to keep this argument that's going nowhere continuing forever but there's more to this topic than dealing with a brick wall like you that I'd rather move on to. You're just wasting my time at this point now.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby jdc55 » 13 January 2019, 17:01

Hikarikaze wrote:Wait a minute, you were arguing against this. That scenario would still have the randomization you yourself didn't want. So does that mean you're arguing for the same thing you're arguing against? lol

Amateur hour at it's finest :nope:

jdc55 wrote:I also don't think it's balanced for a League to randomly pick out maps when it comes to a Match.. In PWL we did Best of 5 to 8. All 5 games consisted of all Competitive game modes.


So you telling me, that best of 5, where every match is chosen "Randomly", but two map types don't come out twice isn't my system? When It's Map type cap is 5.. aka (I Gotta say it again) Core 5. And also known as
jdc55 wrote:all Competitive game modes


And also, sorry for my error here. When I said "Game Modes", I meant Map types. Back in old PWL everyone use to refer to Map types as Game modes, since no one actually cared for the actual game modes.. But anyone who has been apart of the Competitive league scene would know exactly what I'm talking about. It's just that I had to switch my vocabulary up with you and say "Map types".

Hikarikaze wrote:Who said it had to be "best of 3?" lol

Assuming Best of 5 then?


Hikarikaze wrote:Duplicated selections can simply be fixed by randomly selecting a mode again until a duplicate isn't selected


Now, you're telling me that, those two things above aren't almost exactly what my system is?

jdc55 wrote:MATCH
Best of 5

Game 1: Snipers

Game 2: Arena

Game 3: Rails

Game 4: Warfare

Game 5: Rays

Every game has a specific game type with multiple maps within them.


Lol, Literally the only difference is, the Map types won't be random. They'd be set in order, then shuffled throughout the weeks of the season, to give everyone fair play time.

WHAT I ARGUED AGAINST

I argued against just randomly selecting maps without considering Map types at all. Especially in a Best of 3 format.

Hikarikaze wrote:What you're saying is that you now suddenly agree with my side which is contradictory to your entire argument.

In no way shape or form am I contradicting myself, or agreeing with you. You're the one who is agreeing with me, and you don't even know it. I don't think you fully even understood how my system even worked. Because if you did, then you'd know that they're exactly the same thing, just with a slight difference.


Hikarikaze wrote:Your argument isn't good so your claim isn't very valid.

I don't see how you can say this man. I mean.. You did agree with me didn't you? ^_^

Hikarikaze wrote:And adding a winking emote at the end just solidifies my point that you're clueless

:P
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby Hikarikaze » 13 January 2019, 21:25

jdc55 wrote:Amateur hour at it's finest

Counterarguments at their finest

jdc55 wrote:So you telling me, that best of 5, where every match is chosen "Randomly", but two map types don't come out twice isn't my system? When It's Map type cap is 5.. aka (I Gotta say it again) Core 5. And also known as
jdc55 wrote:all Competitive game modes

There's more than five "map types," some of which can be competitive enough if done right. Just because you can only see five types doesn't mean there are in actuality five.

You somehow managed to convolute my argument even though I laid it down in basic terms, and you in turn responded to your own twisted interpretation, causing your own argument to end up being just as convoluted.

You need to backtrack way back to the first initial posts. You were arguing against, in your own words, "randomness on a bigger scale," because according to you, PL threw "game categories out the window and just made every single map random no matter the game type." I argued against you in supposed technical favor of this "randomness on a bigger scale" you spoke of, which isn't the system you're arguing for. This is the track I've remained on from start to now.

jdc55 wrote:And also, sorry for my error here. When I said "Game Modes", I meant Map types. Back in old PWL everyone use to refer to Map types as Game modes, since no one actually cared for the actual game modes.. But anyone who has been apart of the Competitive league scene would know exactly what I'm talking about. It's just that I had to switch my vocabulary up with you and say "Map types".

In the previous statement I quoted from you, you imply that game types and map types are separate on one hand, then go around and equate the two to be the same.

jdc55 wrote:what PL did was throw game type categories out the window, and just made every single map random no matter the game type.

If map types and game types are the literal same, then this statement makes zero sense because if duplications aren't allowed in selection and a "game type" can't occur twice in a row, then this is quite literally the system you keep arguing for, yet you used this as a counterargument against me. So again, like I said, you're arguing against the thing you're arguing for simultaneously.

It would only logically make sense if game types and map types were separate by definition. You're implying that they are with this statement.

jdc55 wrote:Lol, Literally the only difference is, the Map types won't be random. They'd be set in order, then shuffled throughout the weeks of the season, to give everyone fair play time.

This difference is what we're arguing about. You have a problem with randomization; I don't. How am I agreeing with you as you say if I'm arguing for the randomization you don't want? That's the same tangent I've been arguing from since the start. You managed to somehow skew my argument so badly that you also managed to end up aligning your argument with mine, but you don't want to admit it for some reason.

jdc55 wrote:
Hikarikaze wrote:What you're saying is that you now suddenly agree with my side which is contradictory to your entire argument.

In no way shape or form am I contradicting myself, or agreeing with you. You're the one who is agreeing with me, and you don't even know it. I don't think you fully even understood how my system even worked. Because if you did, then you'd know that they're exactly the same thing, just with a slight difference.

If there is a slight difference, it's not exactly the same thing. You don't understand how equivalency works.

The amount of mental gymnastics you're doing is immense here.

jdc55 wrote:
Hikarikaze wrote:Your argument isn't good so your claim isn't very valid.

I don't see how you can say this man. I mean.. You did agree with me didn't you? ^_^

If you properly understood the argument from start to finish, you would know that I've been arguing the same thing that you opposed, and now you're agreeing on the same thing I've been arguing against.

By this alone, I can say again that your argument isn't good because you can't even stay on one track without complicating the most simple way the argument is outlined.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby jdc55 » 14 January 2019, 01:22

Hikarikaze wrote:There's more than five "map types," some of which can be competitive enough if done right. Just because you can only see five types doesn't mean there are in actuality five.

Is there? Like what? Swords only? Rockets only? Shotguns only? BNG Only? Lol. Competitive leagues for the most part has always been Core 5, because any other map type just simply does not fit Team vs Team competitive, nor is it as popular and played competitively as much as the Core 5 Competitive map types. You can argue that Rockets is competitive, but adding rockets would be completely useless seeing that nobody really plays it on a competitive level. The most popular rockets map, that MOST Rockets players play, is Nyove-rockets. And that's a slow motion custom map. Doesn't even really fall in the competitive category. That's why rockets were added last to the PL Map type list. Barely I'd say up to 4 full on rockets players registered for PL. And none of those 4 could even come close to being a top player in the league. I'd probably say maybe 1. The top players were all Core 5, leaving rockets player in the dust. It's just my opinion, but if you ask me, Rockets doesn't belong in a Competitive league as it's own Map type. I don't have a problem with them being in Arena maps and Warfare maps. But as a Map type a lone, it just wasn't as competitive as the Core 5 map types. The matches were slow, and painful to watch, and even play in. (Yes, I've played in PL and had to fill in for a rockets player once). But that's just my opinion. It just wasn't as uproar as the Core 5 Map types. Nobody really cared for rockets, and it was honestly just dead weight to me. But don't take heart to that. That's just my opinion. But fact is, Rockets just can't keep up with the traditional Core 5. Not even close. It's better off as a Custom game like Swords only or pistols only. Other than that, I don't see any other map type being true to Competitive.

Hikarikaze wrote:In the previous statement I quoted from you, you imply that game types and map types are separate on one hand, then go around and equate the two to be the same.

Huh? I used "Game modes" as a separate vocabulary for Map types. Which is something I shouldn't of done. I already pointed that out. I'm human. If I was ever talking about actual Game modes, I would of brought up TDM, and Cooperative in my System examples. No way would I want TDM added to the Competitive league. I actually already tried it. It's a horrible idea. every time a match starts, your teammates spawn apart from you, and when you die, you have no weapon leaving yourself vulnerable when you spawn close to enemies. This was literally about 2 years ago when PWL was in it's earliest days. It was a disaster and should never even be considered apart of a Competitive league. My apologize if I confused you.

Hikarikaze wrote:If map types and game types are the literal same, then this statement makes zero sense because if duplications aren't allowed in selection and a "game type" can't occur twice in a row, then this is quite literally the system you keep arguing for, yet you used this as a counterargument against me. So again, like I said, you're arguing against the thing you're arguing for simultaneously.

What? What are you talking about? Never did I say I agreed with PL's system. I'm against it. I was just telling you what PL was doing wrong. Geeezzz man. So you're just going to put words in my mouth? :(

Hikarikaze wrote:If there is a slight difference, it's not exactly the same thing. You don't understand how equivalency works.

You yourself stated "Duplicated selections can simply be fixed by randomly selecting a mode again until a duplicate isn't selected"

MY System:Duplicated selections are simply fixed by inserting a mode or "MAP TYPE" so a duplicate isn't selected
The only difference is, I'm not randomizing it. I'm inserting them specifically to satisfy all players needs and play time. That's the only difference. You're basically for my system, except you want it to be Randomized. That's the only thing. And when you say things like "Who says it has to be best of 3?", that implies you're Pro-Best Of 5. It can't be Best of 6 or 7, because that would just simply be too excessive adding Map types, that don't belong in a competitive 3v3 League. It's best to keep it simple balanced Core 5.

Hikarikaze wrote:and now you're agreeing on the same thing I've been arguing against.

It's the other way around. I've stuck to my argument from start to finish.

My argument is that maps shouldn't be simply Randomized without assigning map type categories to every match, and that the system should be the PWL System (The System I'm proposing). My argument has stayed the same.


Assigning random maps in a best of 3 match is unbalanced and inconsistent. And even if they weren't randomized, 2/5 of the Competitive side of the game is still missing from that match. And now your trying to make an argument for more map types that would add to that number. This simply isn't good at all man.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby Hikarikaze » 14 January 2019, 06:20

jdc55 wrote:You can argue that Rockets is competitive, but adding rockets would be completely useless seeing that nobody really plays it on a competitive level. The most popular rockets map, that MOST Rockets players play, is Nyove-rockets.

This is yet another straw man you're arguing with. I never mentioned rocket maps to begin with, so why are you going off on a tangent to argue against rocket maps specifically now?

jdc55 wrote:What? What are you talking about? Never did I say I agreed with PL's system. I'm against it. I was just telling you what PL was doing wrong. Geeezzz man. So you're just going to put words in my mouth?

I'm not putting words in your mouth; I'm telling you what the words coming out of your mouth mean in terms of logical sense and the argument at hand. The only one putting words in others' mouths is you here.

jdc55 wrote:The only difference is, I'm not randomizing it. I'm inserting them specifically to satisfy all players needs and play time. That's the only difference. You're basically for my system, except you want it to be Randomized.

If it's randomized, it's not "your system" because your system isn't randomized, so I'm not arguing for your system. Again, you need to understand how equivalency works. Two things are not the same if there is at least one difference among them to separate them from each other.

jdc55 wrote:And when you say things like "Who says it has to be best of 3?", that implies you're Pro-Best Of 5.

Talk about irony. I never mentioned I was pro-"best of 5" or "best of 3" or anything regarding these lines yet you put words in my mouth saying that I'm implying to be for something I never even mentioned. You keep attacking this "best of 3" angle even though it's a straw man and I never mentioned anything like it to you.

You're just using too many straw man arguments now while doing mental gymnastics on top of it. I don't have to argue against someone who's not countering the right arguments at this point.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby jdc55 » 14 January 2019, 20:08

Hikarikaze wrote:This is yet another straw man you're arguing with. I never mentioned rocket maps to begin with, so why are you going off on a tangent to argue against rocket maps specifically now?

I never said you did mention rockets. I'm just clearing that space to save time, before you start using that as another argument.

Hikarikaze wrote:There's more than five "map types," some of which can be competitive enough if done right. Just because you can only see five types doesn't mean there are in actuality five.

Well, if it isn't rockets, then what is it? Lol. There's no other map type that is qualified for competitive. This is you trying to create new arguments, then probably turning them into false causes. Just saying how I see it.

Hikarikaze wrote:I'm not putting words in your mouth; I'm telling you what the words coming out of your mouth mean in terms of logical sense and the argument at hand. The only one putting words in others' mouths is you here.


The only words that came out my mouth were "what PL did was throw game type categories out the window, and just made every single map random no matter the game type." Nowhere in there did I say "I was for this system". I was just explaining the system and pointing out the wrongs of it. Just because I explain it, doesn't mean I'm for it. And you should know this because, I've said that I was against the PL System from the start.

Hikarikaze wrote:If it's randomized, it's not "your system" because your system isn't randomized, so I'm not arguing for your system. Again, you need to understand how equivalency works. Two things are not the same if there is at least one difference among them to separate them from each other.


Randomization is the slight difference in our proposing systems. And I'm not saying that the slight difference isn't worth a lot. Randomizing the Map types could be added to my system and I'd be okay with it, because there's still 5 Map types a match, putting the full side of Competitive pb2 in one and not just 3. That's where the similarities of our wanted systems comes in. But that also doesn't mean that inserting then shuffling isn't the better idea in terms of equally satisfying players playing time. A slight difference may not make them exactly the same, but it can make them basically the same.

Hikarikaze wrote:I never mentioned I was pro-"best of 5" or "best of 3"

Well you definitely need to mention if your Pro-Best of 5 or Pro-Best of 3. Because when you say things like "Who says it has to be best of 3?", does that not imply that you are "AGAINST" Best of 3? You can't be for Best of 6, because that's simply excessive, and there are literally no other competitive map types that would fit a 3v3 league format. Can't be best of 7, because if you believe that, then you are just simply clueless and would prove you don't know how this works. And I know you aren't clueless. So it has to be Best of 5.. Because best of 5 is the best format for a competitive league that has 5 Competitive Map types. You can stay neutral on this if you want. I don't really care. Don't respond to this comment for all I care, I'm not here to prove people wrong and make them feel bad. (p.s I'm not throwing any shade, I'm genuinely being truthful).

Honestly man, if you don't think our proposed systems are similar, I don't know about you man. My proposal has been the same since the get-go. You were the one who responded to me with a system and now saying I'm agreeing with it? Lol. That's a yikes.. If anyone is agreeing with someone, It's you my friend. You may need to get your own arguments together before trying to flip flop someone else's.
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