Roxxar wrote:i tried very hard to say that these are my personal interjections and not "arguments" but rather a conversation, and i love the amount of sarcasm and wit you're starting to put into these posts. that's a sarcastic statement in and of itself, but still i think its ironic that coming from someone who had such an enlightened view of flamewars and argumentative debates (which i didnt say it was nor had an intention to do so! i said moreso that its a conversation several times)
sarcasm and irony dont make things bad or good, like we have serious authors that made use of that a lot in the past, good example is Voltaire, if you read some of his stuff it has what 18th century sarcasm and irony were like, you can also see some authors like indirectly making fun out of others, Kant doing that with Descartes, Schopenhauer doing that with Hegel, etc, it imo and prob in their opinions too just makes things more interesting
also there are no such thing as flamewars, only those who abuse fallacies or cannot deal with arguments so they try to make chaos and attack people because theyre dumb and biased
Roxxar wrote:1) yes, i do think there should be more futuristic guns! without the fanart factions, thats a ratio of 1:5 ratio of realistic to futuristic (cs:everything else). it's a game about the future! of course i want more futuristic guns. in my scrapped draft response,
i even mentioned this point. slot disparity will happen for the same reason there is factional fanart disparity; you're saying you want to control slots over factions, but isnt that the same essence of controlling what artists want to submit?
first of all there is a big difference submitting and accepting, i dont want any control other than quality but i find extremely unlikely for that to happen so lets use something that is better than futuristic or realistic as a whole, apply that concept to faction and slots
i mean that AK-47 that dude submitted, it wont get accepted, if it does Eric who deliciously exquisite pizza sauce owns the game can just say a no, it doesnt have much of an artstyle that fits, and there are better guns for said functions that have been submitted (my AV-235)
everybody could just submit a bunch of slot 2s, Eric could be like "i dont need 35 AK-47s let me accept a few only or one of these", etc
Roxxar wrote:2) can you please stop trying to throw around straw mans of assuming my implicit "arguments" of "roxxar hates ABC therefore XYZ he knows best." i cant tell if they're hyperbolic or literal; either way, i think its an oversimplification of what i am trying to say. i want this to be an emphasis on artists' discretion and submissions, with my subjective lens and insight as to what that means. nowhere have i claimed that i am trying to be authoritative or superior about this; its all in the form of a plea/request yet you somehow twist it into some roxxar-based fantasy?
just focus on accepting and not submitting, simple as that, we wont and cant stop artists from creating realistic art and we also shouldnt because its useless, also its your opinion when you talk about PB2 needing futuristic guns because some people want realistic guns, just because a thing is a thing it does not mean that said thing needs more of that specific thing, its an opinion, some might want diversity, some dont, let the majority vote and make Eric our own true god accept stuff, even then the way the poll was done didnt consdier the generic DARK CLAN member who has a valid opinion though probably less developed or rational but that doesnt make it invalid
Roxxar wrote:3) the ideas are what matter! not the fact that they wont be used/popular. admittedly im gonna get up on a high horse for this, but i do think the idea of my cyber grub/android/usurper (this doesnt have to be my art alone; it could be anyone's assuming they make it!) weapons is better than the idea of a "futuristic rebel AR15/AKM/Uzi" ! see point 5 for further clarification
i disagree, your pistol is almost an exact copy of the c01, also not really, why create something that will see no use and why remove something that will to add said thing? and again why not both?
Roxxar wrote:4) there's a norm because if there wasn't a norm, this would be gmod! this is not gmod. there's a theme and story to the campaign and i dont think its fair to say that we can and should allow whatever we want just because there's a level editor that's fairly intuitive and genius in terms of advanced custom gameplay that the community can control. if you (rhetorically speaking; i am not physically speaking to you, the reader [i.e. phsc], in this figurative comparison) really want to make a WW2 map that's accurate down to the rubble created when a german apartment building was accidentally demolished due to a 2cm Flak 30/Flakvierling 38, i do truly believe that you have a skewed image of what the game is like, and you have an incorrect target audience in mind!
if you want to create a ww2 SIMILAR map with single-shot rifles and the occasional machine gun crew between two opposing foreign parties in a ruined urban battlefield, then boy does the level editor have what you need!
yes this is a futuristic game, it does not mean it needs to be a futuristic game forever, and it does not exclude the fact that new things that are not futuristic can be added, and i dont see a problem with this being like GMOD because, here is the amazing part, we can keep the campaign and all of that futuristic cool-sexy n all nice, but what happens is that in multiplayer what many times is more popular is something that goes against the topic of the game, so why not give said people a product to work with? it does not mean accepting 35 AK-47s or direct real life copies, instead of something like what that dude submitted, what about my AV-235? thats what im trying to say
Roxxar wrote:5) the removal of guns is something that this game should not support! in fact that sounds exactly like the opposite of what you, phsc, want when it comes to chancing your art to get into the game. first people have chance their odds that their submission is popular enough, THEN they have to chance their odds that their submission will STAY popular enough?
why not? things evolve, some stop being used or being considered good by others
this is quite deeper than this, should PB2 follow its lore and only and thus lose popularity, or should we adapt so more people come in, or it adapts with the time or need of its players?
this is just one of the methods of dealing with that, and if Eric thinks a gun really belongs into the game, he could just... not remove it! because its his game so he can do whatever he wants, right? he just chooses to do what people want
Roxxar wrote:im glad you also made a hasty generalization of saying these "futuristic" guns will not be used because ding ding ding thats a fallacy. how does anyone know that. here's a thought: you said no one uses the CS-OICW therefore does this mean other realistic guns akin to it will not be used?
how do people in the market know that a thing is used? they see it now and assume how it will be, is it an absolute truth? no, i know that
what happens is that if you go in right now and check all maps being played you will probably see most guns being realistic than futuristic, maybe not in approved maps because of how people tend to stay within the topic but custom almost for sure, the CS-OICW is a more specific case because of how its DPS is quite different from other guns and how it plays differently, as it is a burst rifle, with a separate color scheme, if we add more into said themes it might get popular, and you can make an argument that grubs could become more popular if they had grub weapons that is probably true, probably because i cannot predict the future, if we had actual data things would be easier to deal with, but this for reaistic guns is a thing i remember quite well from the past, and by past i mean before the new gun update, the CS weapons were in a general way more used that the futuristic ones mostly in custom maps, like bases, people put CS guns and not alien guns, sometimes they do but its rare, approved and unranked maps tend to be more into PB2s lore though then we have like jason eden and his maps...
Roxxar wrote:popularity does not determine whether or not a gun should be submitted (SUBMITTED, not "accepted" please dont go on a tangent about "didnt you just say popular vote something something elitist polls"), thematics (and i suppose slot disparity, which i said several times i agree with) should
what does? your opinion that we should keep the 2:7 ratio? thats your opinion, what if i want that ratio to be 7:2? popularity is the best method of solving things, that is why capitalism tends to work better than other systems in real life, because of the market, in this case it is more like democracy because you cannot like spend 5000 in a gun you like when the average is 1000, everybody would have the same amount of money in this system because there is none and only a vote, we are also assuming that Eric and staff will use a poll again, maybe they just will handpick stuff or whatever
and again there is the problem that a lot of people from PB2 didnt get to know about the poll or didnt vote etc etc etc, mostly those who really play the game such as DARK CLAN members i will explain this later
so here is how i view it, anything should be submitted, its like opening a company, you can open it and sell literally shit, maybe people who like scat will buy it, but unless said people really value your system they could pay much to keep you going, does this happen with PB2? we dont have data on what is used and what is not and Eric should add that kind of thing probably, submissions seem to attract a bunch of weird things (like that pumpkin man) that really dont fit, let him send that, if we had a upvote button in the forums(old suggestion) it would make it easier to see what fits and what doesnt for these newer artists, but back into the capitalism example, maybe people would like to have the pumpkin man into the game, turns out that probably not many would (i dont think you disagree with this generalization), and now we get into a problem of what youre saying:
artists shouldnt submit stuff that really dont fit (such as a extremely realistic AK or a pumpkin man(assuming you think it also doesnt fit since it isnt even futuristic and just weird that doesnt fit into a faction or lore))
- we dont know if there will be a pumpkin faction or literally the USSR as a faction in 2.5, this is quite ridiculous but i think you get the idea behind this, i just used a ridiculous example, and then if the polls happen before 2.5 it would probably be downvoted into hell, but maybe the polls happen before Eric releases stuff (again i am unsure) so maybe, maybe that could get in
- we dont know how guns that are currently in 2.5 are, there are a few but we dont know how many or how exactly they are, so maybe like a different alien pistol is already there and we dont know, this could generate issues you mention further with the slot 1 SMGs
so this doesnt only affect your view, but also popularity if the polls happen before 2.5, so the method for solving it other than accepting almost everything is just running the polls after the release or after Eric tells people what is going to be in it, allowing everybody to submit everything
and i wont get into the fact that people will probably still submit things even if theyre completely ridiculous, and if they had feedback (last time a bunch of people criticized others in the fan art section and many who were even ridiculed still submitted their stuff)
Roxxar wrote:6) ANOTHER straw man that you, phsc, dont apply to yourself for some reason! YOU think some futuristic guns look ridiculous, therefore all possible futuristic guns will look ridiculous? thats a subjective opinion i distinctly tried to avoid yet you pinned on me, now im gonna pin it on you because you explicitly said it. who's to say they'll look ridiculous? from my personal experience, i've been submitting moderately sized and shaped guns nowhere near the size of, lets say, the heavy railgun or pre-war gauss gun that got in -- so much so that the falkok guns have been labeled as toys in comparison to the other guns it was submitted alongside with. sure a couple futuristic submissions in the 1st thread were arguably ridiculous, but im not gonna say that myself because thats my opinion that may or may not be shared with a minority of the community!
since i think youre using your opinion that we should keep PB2 as it is - as in what should get in following the lore and keeping current proportions of realistic:futuristic - i used my opinion that they are ridiculous and also keep in mind ive seen more people say that
and again the only method of knowing this would be with data so we would need to check for comments made in that period of time, also in the discord server, but then we dont have access to other PB2 groups n etc n etc
what youre ignoring is that its also your opinion that we should keep it as it is, and in the forums it seems like most people agree with that kind of mentality
Roxxar wrote:?.?) i have no clue what DARK CLAN actually is, so im gonna ignore that sentiment
DARK CLAN is prob the only actual PB2 clan and it is quite big, i used to be part of it, it is highly not organized and the only figure it has is paulstin, what happens is that anyone can join and a lot of newer players, kids, people that wont stay much in the game and also some that will, join it, but unlike most of us (assuming you dont), they actually play PB2 constantly, its a good way to get a general idea of what people want, and there are people that disagree with each other even in that
Roxxar wrote:7) again, i have no problem with this demand for realistic stuff! i have a problem with the precedent it holds!
- let's have a terrorist faction! ok great
- lets have some terrorist skins! fantastic, could always use new skins
- how about some weapons for them to use! awesome, there's already a few for them
- and some decorations! sure, the game could always use some different decorations and designs
- now lets have some counter-terrorists with the same concepts as above! okay, i suppose that only fits
- they should have different guns than the terrorists! i guess that would make sense...
- ooh what if the terrorists hired mercenaries to help them fight the CTs like in Strike Force Heroes 3! uhh...
well you get the point i dont need to derail that example any further. nowhere when you argue for this terrorist stuff do you argue for the futuristic stuff alongside it! this makes me believe that you dont REALLY care for this balance, but rather the opportunity and freedom of expression in the level editor to create neo-historic maps and scenarios that will make gun and history nuts go crazy. WHICH ISNT BAD, but it seems in all of your examples you're forgetting the balance and the theme upon which the game was founded!
im not saying that futuristic stuff or TERRORIST FUTURISTIC STUFF shouldnt get into the game, and just because i have a d-day map it doesnt mean i want that for only myself, but there are quite a ton of d-day maps mostly after gani made his that was popular
and again i was assuming that everybody accepts the balance and theme as what defines what should get in, its a view, as i mentioned, a reactionary view
and these guns can even maybe not be allowed in approved maps where balance actually affects things, another thing i quite forgot to mention, we could accept a literal AK-47 for only custom maps, maybe make them like a toggle button in the level editor for these realistic guns, maybe this mentality comes from the m4a1 and the glock but maps made before it already wanted such mentality such as x death-realwar n base maps
Roxxar wrote:and again, this isnt a conversation about futurism vs realism, it's about balance and discretion. idgaf if there are realistic guns and factions in-game, but because i think this is a futuristic-themed game, it should have more futuristic-themed stuff!
again, your opinion that we should keep it as it is
but even then, why not a mix, like, again, my AV-235, is it futuristic or realistic? i had a talk with some people, some said futuristic because fancy lights n lasers n shit, some said realistic with fancy lights n shit that lacks creativity, again, this is too subjective, a poll or free-market capitalism could solve this(the second being prob impossible to implement in a realistic way), or just Eric picking what he likes
Roxxar wrote:finally, no i dont want to read those authors and economists. i ultimately dont care enough about what happens with the submissions/acceptances to attempt to argue through an educated economical and sociological perspective. again, this is all in the lens of an observant, hopeless romantic (and by romantic i mean romanticism, not affection); i have no expectation of changing minds really, but i had hoped that maybe this could spark some thought about it!
this was about the supply and demand things i mentioned, not about PB2 directly, also directed to incompetence
Roxxar wrote:tl;dr - i think the fundamental basis with which i am discussing this is as follows:
i think pb2 to be a futuristic game, therefore i think there should be more futuristic stuff regardless of the potetial of the level editor/custom maps. if you fundamentally disagree with that statement, well idk what else to tell you and i'd dare say there's nothing more to discuss. we can agree to disagree here and move on.
if you DO agree, here's my schtick: artists should think to themselves: hey, am i submitting too much realistic stuff? is there enough realistic stuff submitted that mine isn't distinctly unique in comparison to? what futurism does this realism balance out?
are these questions so unfair for people to ask themselves before they submit something? or does the glory of having their stuff physically in-game astronomically outweigh the metaphysical questions and consequences of not doing so?
[/quote]
i think taht society is what it is, so it keep being what it is with no changes that might make it better or worse
that is the problem im trying to mention, its your opinion of your reactionary PB2istic views, im using reactionary and not conservative cuz of the philosophical bases of like Burke that would say "KEEP THE FUTURISTIC STUFF AND ACCEPT BOTH THE REALISTIC AND FUTURISTIC ONES" while reactionary - and dont take it as it is often used as people who are agaisnt democracy and in for fascism n shit yet its philosophical base which has a lot of shit in it so i wont get into it) would say to keep how it is currently is(adding new stuff to fit what currently is keeping the 2:7 scale as i understand your opinion is) while someone that isnt any of that, i dont like the term liberal, would want to accept more realistic guns and things that go agaisnt what the game currently has
now into Krutz
Krutz wrote:when i see a weapon that obviously resembles something in real life "submitted" to be possibly added to the game, i just kinda roll my eyes... i dont give a sht if it gets into the game really, i think the more guns added, the better (i suppose), but id rather see stuff that arent just copies of real guns
so, my AV-235, where does it fit? its a good example of how this line is too subjective, the AK that dude made, it is pretty much a copy, it doesnt have futuristic elements, and i think its art-style doesnt fit well enought too
and i agree that my SCAR is a literal copy, but i think the AUG which i made some changes to so it isnt a 1:1 copy could be accepted, coming from what i mentioned about supply generating demand which is true but not completely as Incompetence was saying, what we see affects what we want and what we use as in, if there is only one gun for a faction, i cannot use it for a full map beceause of the lack of variety for said faction and thus it could be boring, like that, and the CS-OICW has a different color scheme and damage values and also gameplay, so maybe guns that fit well with it could be added, the KSG could be a slug shotgun as you mentioned, the AUG a high penetration slower firging rifle to actually combat the alien rifle, just examples it doesnt need to be my guns or whatever
Krutz wrote:but then theres also the issue of functionality redundancy... think the little bastard and the ghost—theyre almost exactly the same weapons. thats where i would kinda give a sht if the art gets into the game, because its effectively already in the game
i agree, the general idea behing my AV-235 is that it would take over the AV-135 because it is too big in comparison to other guns and mostly for a slot 2, people wanted a remake, and the others have functionality, one could say that what i am supposing with my AUG is what the PHANX does but the PHANX has too low damage and the CR-45 has too different damage and in general way values from my experience using it as well as people not using it too, and since we cannot mod damage for approved maps which would solve a lot of problems, it is quite needed, again its an example, also one could edit the values of said guns
but i agree with you a lot actually, i think factions having different things to achieve the same result, such as the AV-135 and the CS-RC, is fine, but if it is for the same faction or newer factions, why? the example you used being the biggest, but i think we have too many generic railguns at the moment too, and theyre like not directly linked to a faction
Krutz wrote:as another example, the LMG-01m is, im pretty sure, just a better minigun c-02m... a moderate fire rate and power automatic gun with volatile accuracy
i think it isnt that bad because the the minigun is c9 and it is CS, maybe we could get a alien fast firing weapon, if the values balanced each other pretty well, it would allow for lets say a 3 faction war map, etc
Krutz wrote:so if someone draws an ak, and submits it, its like: where do we put this gun in the game? what does it do, in a new fashion? considering the breadth of pb2's ballistic mechanics, pretty much nothing, itll just be another av-135 or cs-rc
and again, there is the custom map issue n everything else correlated with it, aesthetics for single player maps and other things, since youre more of an approved map player, i see your points, but you should consider custom maps too, aesthetics are important for people that create said style of maps, but we do need more versality and balance for approved maps to also be balanced, an CS-RC vs an alien rifle is what should be the lore standard but theyre too different for a balanced map for each two sides, unless its a DM map
but i ask, is my AV-235 realistic by your standards? the AUG? etc
i mean, its too subjective, doom moving that post of mine to other art while i dont remember if it was Roxxar or you who said it would still belong in the fan-art section, while my SCAR which is almost a 1:1 copy that was made for a meme was able to stay there
now into Incompetence
Incompetence wrote:i only find the CS weapons like the CS-RC, etc to be full on generic because they're literally just copies of the things they're based off of. things like the KSG you made or the VHS-2 variant I made aren't exactly "generic" in terms of the style to me but not entirely unique either. i also don't mind if real life weapons do get added in the game because there's nothing wrong with them. i even make those types of weapons myself; i simply just don't want the amount of real life weapons added to outnumber the amount of futuristic/non-real life weapons in the game. i'm not particularly of the opinion that we should focus more on X type of gun over Y; i'm more of a "why not both" person in this discussion. real life guns are unique enough in this game because they're a small percentage of weapons available in the game and it gives those weapons a unique identity and place in this game, which is a good thing imo.
considering what i mentioned to Roxxar, you would be a conservative as in the purest not deturped term
and again, im quite similar to you, when i was younger i made a bunch of 1:1 copies of guns, but if you take a look, i am quite balanced now, while i did submit the AUG the SCAR and the AV-235 i submitted that black n blue gun, the green heater and that gun that fits in with the plasmagun n raygun in color scheme that i dont have a name for or an absolute functionality
Incompetence wrote:but you say that real life guns being generic is our opinion but then you follow this up with your own opinion that continuing to follow the futuristic style will get boring. i'd contend that futuristic designs, regardless of how ridiculous they may look, would be more interesting because they would be designs that haven't been seen before in a completely recognizable form. seeing an AK clone in this game along with other real life guns will get boring quicker because everyone has seen them already before frequently. how would seeing something like an AR-15 or an AK in this game be less boring than continuing to create something that isn't a weapon that already exists?
it isnt my opinion, its my observations over what happens, im also not saying that a bunch of realistic guns wont get boring, but considering the supply and demand ive been able to assume in the game it would be better as in for the PB2 masses, maybe not for what i like to call the elite which are the forum users
considering amount of people the realsitic:futuristic amount should have realistic over futuristic, since there is no such thing as capital to fix that problem in the game, but if there was i would say that the correlation would be 1:1 but then im just assuming things without data or anything because we dont ahve one, just using my memory to check for things
but i think it was quite of a mistake made by my part not explaining well my thoughts
Incompetence wrote:i hold the belief that in a somewhat far future game like PB2, "real life" weapons should be fairly uncommon and not a massive part of that game's arsenal unless there's a really good and believable explanation as to why that's the case. destiny 1 and 2 for example incorporate weapons based off real guns just fine: they are a very small percent of the entire weapons list and don't constitute a large portion of it for no reason and especially not for the sake of some weird pre-established demand, even after their inclusion, and they are explained as being relics from the past, a believable explanation for the setting. PB2 in my opinion would do good to do something like this if it ever decided to include more weapons while keeping the in-game universe in mind. the game can add 70 real life guns in and i wouldn't have a problem, but don't make it 70% of the in-game arsenal. don't forget that there's also a game in the series before PB2 that features an entirely futuristic arsenal so it's clear the game is attempting to go to a futuristic design direction. to go from seeing futuristic color tracer shooting guns in FTTP to AK/AR-15 clones in PB2 in-universe/world would be quite jarring. switching back and forth between futuristic and real life guns would just make the game lose sight of what exactly it wants to be because of these clashing styles trying to exist in the forefront.
then we go back to the era aspect i mentioned in the shotgun post, PB lore in theory has multiple eras, why not have like guns that are less futuristic in the past then you can see them liek damaged in the future? that would be really cool and apocalypse maps (in custom maps, mostly roleplaying which is an extremely popular thing or at least used to be) could use them too, and it can do it, but youre assuming it needs to fit hte lore, we can just never mention it in the campaign, not allow these guns in approved maps and only let them there for custom maps to use, and im unsure if youre talking to this including my AV-235 in the list of realistic weapons
also another thing, futuristic guns could just be evolved realistic designs, or guns considered futuristic or interesting in modern times, like a AUG, a XM8 or a P90, not an AK-47 directly, but since if we do get to have a terrorist faction(i will mention this again later) an AK fits with their style of using older stuff because terrorists in real life do that
Incompetence wrote:this question was literally the reason i was asking if fan art technically exists in canon, because there is no way to determine if anything added actually does exist now in the story or not. i mean, you can have lore friendly things like say, a CS skin, but have it be non-canon after all.
and even if we assume to have only what we currently have as canon, we dont know what is going on in 2.5 and in Erics mind too
Incompetence wrote:as for the AV/terrorist thing, the only thing really giving that faction idea a foundation inside the actual game is the terrorists and counter-terrorists teams in the level editor but again, it leads to the problem of those being considered canon or not because there's no criteria on what establishes something as part of the actual story.
i think we could add things based on what people want, i will mention this again in my reply to tehswordninja
Incompetence wrote:on another note, having a gun belonging to a new faction that we haven't seen in-game but having no user affiliated with said faction is weird because without that character, who is the gun for then and who's going to use it? yeah, having terrorist guns is cool and an interesting angle to have in the game but where are the terrorists? this just leads to issues where a random faction can be created via a created weapon or armor set with no other complementary assets but that faction is just empty and simply a name, lacking a proper identity and presence no different than if said faction never existed, because there is no other material to get that from.
lostmydollar/jason eden submitted the AV guns but he also made terrorist characters that werent accepted or submitted i dont really remember, but i think his design wasnt that good, i might take my time and make some characters for said faction
i think we could have weapon manufacturers that are just generic, that is a possibility that can be canon, like the CR, what is the CR? we have no idea, but it could just be a gun manufacturer instead of a faction, while the AV has the chance of being a really cool faction as in it had submitted/created skins and demand for
Incompetence wrote:PB2's lore is nearly a blank canvas anyways; just about anyone can create a faction or race (see: raven, reakhosha, etc) but those factions themselves aren't really anything. with the CS for example, you at least can see their design language and aesthetic and see what their whole idea is supposed to be. how is anyone supposed to really make anything fitting for something like the reakhosha or even terrorists when there's no proper design language or aesthetic established? if terrorists use whatever weapons they can find, something has to exist that shows that. if they don't, that instead has to be signified then. the AV-135 and Needle can't do that alone so now there's weapons for a faction that literally no one knows what the faction even is. you can only infer so much out of one or two assets for an entirely new faction but it won't give an entirely clear picture on that faction alone.
exactly, i dont think raven are a good idea, reakhosha have quite the potential, aesthetics were defined quite decently i think, but what happens is taht a lot of stuff wasnt accepted, and again, people can just assume and do what they think fits well, as these also came out of nowhere
also going to mention taht who knows if there are new factions in 2.5 too, like one we cant even imagine, having Eric here would make things so better
now to tehswordninja
tehswordninja wrote:I'm one of the folks who's always wanted a Rebel faction, or at least some non-CS human guns besides Correction Nine. The fanart update gave us that, although we sadly didn't get a rebel skin or two.
we had them created at least, just didnt get into the game, as well as more terrorist stuff, created by... terror only aka lostmydollar/jason eden
tehswordninja wrote:I think these guns are fine so long as they show themselves as an evolution of a real-life modern (but much older in the PB2 universe) design. For example, I don't have an issue with a generic AK so long as it can show that it's not a copy of an AKM, but rather what an AK or another similar (I say this since we have an AV-135, not an AK-135) family type of rifle may look like in a couple hundred of years from now. I think the AV-135 does this ok, but it could use some work on its proportions and such.
and i think we could have evolutions within the same factions, the AV-135 is too big so i dislike it but, it has no lasers or fancy lights or wahtever, then there is the AV-235 i made, which, well, looks more technological, doesnt it? its supposedly technologically superior
[/quote]I certainly don't care much for straight-up copies of existing real-life weapons but I'll give the CS weapons a pass since they won't be going from the game any time soon and they don't stick out too badly in my eyes. I wouldn't have an issue with the designs being updated to be a bit more futuristic looking but that's beside the point.[/quote]
i think we can compare that to actual military, while the USSR had some really technological stuff in the 80s, you could still see deliciously exquisite pizza sauce T34s being used even, that could be the realistic stuff, like a CS-RC, etc
also we dont know when the fancy plasma or laser or railgun technologies were developed in PB2s lore as well as a lack of values
tehswordninja wrote:I will agree that I would love for fan artists to create more of the niche weapons; android, Falkok, Alien, C9, but I also wouldn't have issues with fan artists adding to what the fan art update brought; more Crossfire weapons, maybe a Crossfire trooper skin, a few rebel skins to match the RPG/AV-135/Needle, maybe another PHANX weapon or even a skin, etc.
i agree, looks like Roxxar doesnt because he wants to keep the same ratio of guns, his opinion as i mentioned
tehswordninja wrote:I do think that fan artists should be taking a look at the current guns in the game before they make their work. I feel like people just make guns with no consideration for where they would fit in the sandbox.. or if they're even needed in it. It'd be a lot better if people did what I just said and look for existing niches, both old and new, and tried to create skins and weapons that would flesh them out some more.
exactly, and even then, if they submit, just dont accept it, like i made some that literally dont fit anywhere, such as lets say my heater or my black n blue gun, but i think maybe they could be a WEAPON MANUFACTURER of said color scheme, we dont have something black other than the CS ghosts, and another green faction but a different tone from the CS or the AV that makes more futuristic wepaons wouldnt be bad
we should create weapon companies and manufacturers not direclty as factions, but things such as the AVesque peeps, since there were characters made but they were quite out of hte PB2 style, i think it would be nice to create them as a faction, my opinion though
i wont tldr because it depends on what topic was talked
also dont consider it as an appeal to authority when i mention authors cuz im trying to use arguments and post that you could take a look at them for things such as supply and demand but we wont get into that anything it seems like
this is big