RE:ENEMY LIST (I am dissapointed)

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RE:ENEMY LIST (I am dissapointed)

Postby Max teabag » 8 January 2017, 01:42

I was disappointed and surprised over the response that Maxim's thead "Whats the point of enemy lists" got.
His points were valid, and I do not agree with the reason he locked it, heres why:

Firstly, I've always wondered how Eric thought adding an Enemy list to an already toxic community would do anything better. When the developer has Enemy lists publicly displaying who hates whom, (seriously, the websites uses "hated by X people") then the website actually encourages bitterness toward each other. It's really utterly pointless, the system encourages the type of drama "who hates whom" etc... while any game's objective should be to bring people together in a friendly environment.

Like REALLY, Eric? A hatred list? "Oh let me log on PB2 to see who hates me now, so I can start a flame war against him!"

A much better solution would be a PRIVATE ignore list, so you automatically block out what the person is saying to you in-game and stops him from sending you messages.


Here are points that advocates the enemy list and why they're wrong.

Quote Sparken "It's nice to have so you can find someone to challenge"
You don't have to HATE SOMEONE to want to challenge them. And it would be better if someone who hates eachother DOES NOT find each other, as it would just create flame wars in-game. If you want a challenge, just add them to your friends list. The system actually changes how people behave towards each-other.

Quote "It's not the feature's fault if people misuse it, you might as well blame the people rather than the feature itself."
The system completely at fault if the players misuse it. It's only logical if 90% of the users use the system not like it's intended, then it's obviously something wrong with the system, not 90% of the players! Duh.

SPARKEN wrote:Bad design? What do you mean?

Design was simple, you add an enemy onto your list, he/she is added. He/She is then notified via their "hated list" who added him/her to it.

Simple. Not the designs fault since it's so simple and if people are so incompetent to even follow that, then what can I say?

I can't believe what I'm reading. If most people could not figure out how to operate an ATM machine you designed, then you can't say "people are incompetent," no, you say "we need a better design." What is your definition of a good design if nobody uses the system for what it was meant for?
The simple definition of design in this sense is "to devise for a specific function or end"
The design is a good one if it does devise very often to the wanted function, which in this case, it does absolutely not.


HIK wrote:Obviously people don't use it the way it's intended because they don't have to use it that way but it's not the system's fault nor is it a design flaw that this happens

Why can't you just put rivals on your friends list? You mention the word "organizing." By your logic, when two players become rivals the website encourages them to become enemies, not friends, Organizing means communication. And communication means sending messages between each-other. Since the SYSTEM makes it possible to restrict only friends to send you messages, that means in an indirect way: enemy = no communcation. Where does organizing come in here?

kazy wrote:If you're being triggered by the feature that hard to make a rant-post about it, stop playing the game and/or stop using any or our services at all and ignore it.

How did these words come out of a head moderator? This is an utterly pointless critique. The reason we make rant-posts is to help. To suggest leaving the game instead of helping it is absurd.

hik wrote:And no, the enemies list doesn't necessarily promote hate among people. It can, but it's not the point. If you make an enemy in the game, chances are you'd want to compete with that enemy to see who's better.
Really? To me it seems like that is exactly the point. The website explicitly states "THIS PERSON IS HATED BY THIS PERSON" and it also displays how many persons hate this person. Seriously this is like watching a South Park episode.

Everyone keeps saying, "Oh, well of course, the system is INTENDED for ..... blah .... "
Yet the people saying that have never actually used the system. Nobody ever uses the enemy list for the reasons the reasons stated above. It's just utterly pointless.

I think I've been hated like, 500 times or so, just because people want to see when I'm online.

maxim wrote:"It's not the fault of the feature It'self, but rather the fault of the people use it"

No he's not right. Why are you guys defending a system where you have to display to everyone "I HATE THIS PERSON" in order to really say "I WANT TO SEE WHEN HE'S ONLINE."
Last edited by Max teabag on 8 January 2017, 01:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RE:ENEMY LIST (I am dissapointed)

Postby Kazy » 8 January 2017, 01:51

i wrote:If you're being triggered by the feature that hard to make a rant-post about it, stop playing the game and/or stop using any or our services at all and ignore it.

max wrote:How did these words come out of a head moderator? This is an utterly pointless critique. The reason we make rant-posts is to help. To suggest leaving the game instead of helping it is absurd.

Lol, i didn't "just" suggest leaving the game.
The point is to simply ignore the feature and don't use it if it is literally that disturbing as how maxim stated it.
If he can't ignore it, he can stop using the site features and wander on the forum or leave the game.
Since we all also know, there won't be any bigger updates for PB2 it's also not helping to make a post about it.

And yes, as you have seen these words came straight out of a head moderator. c:
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Re: RE:ENEMY LIST (I am dissapointed)

Postby Max teabag » 8 January 2017, 02:01

Kazy wrote:The point is to simply ignore the feature and don't use it if it is literally that disturbing as how maxim stated it.
If he can't ignore it, he can stop using the site features and wander on the forum or leave the game.

A feature is saying something about PB2 as a community as a whole in ways Maxim cannot control.
When newcomers come to PB2 and see that on Profiles there are lists on "who hates whom." What makes them think of this as a community? They might automatically assume that this is a place where it's natural to make enemies and start conflict.

A feature should do something good to the website. I don't see how the words "enemy" "hated by" etc does anything positive. And I think it was a very valid move of Maxim to criticize a "feature" that does absolutely no good and that nobody uses as it was "intended" for. And yet, nobody really knows what it REALLY intended for, that's how useless it is.
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Re: RE:ENEMY LIST (I am dissapointed)

Postby Kazy » 8 January 2017, 02:53

First time i have seen the enemy list i thought it's some competetive thing which helps you to keep in track of people who you want to have a battle with.
And that's what it does quite well, since your opponent doesn't have to accept any requests unlike for the friends list.

If people think they need to use that list as their personal bashing thing, which isn't even possible since it's rather a passive feature which doesn't create pop-ups like "player xyz has added you to her/his enemy list" or something, it's not really our problem since there is nothing we can do about it.

You also need to look at it literally every day to notice any changes in your enemy or hated lists. And i don't understand how it's bothering to have both.
Either i am just better at ignoring certain stuff and distinguishing between unnecessary and necessary things or certain people are special snowflakes.

As for now i see three possible solutions:

- Remove the "hated" list
- Rename the "hated" list
- Create extra rules for the feature
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Re: RE:ENEMY LIST (I am dissapointed)

Postby DoomWrath » 8 January 2017, 03:04

Maybe it could be fixed with the following:

Rename "Enemy List" to "Challenged List"
Rename "Add player to Enemy List" to "Challenge Player"
Rename "Hated By" list to "Challenged By"
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Re: RE:ENEMY LIST (I am dissapointed)

Postby AI Robot » 8 January 2017, 03:10

I Agree The System Is Sorta Trashy. You shouldn't Just add someone to you enemies List When you don't even know them I Swear like 3/5 People I haven't even met up in the a match Before just add me for no reason
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Re: RE:ENEMY LIST (I am dissapointed)

Postby Max teabag » 8 January 2017, 03:12

Better yet just remove the feature. It's never used. Nobody logs on PB2 to check their enemy list. "Oh crap, none of my enemies are online today, guess I'll check again tomorrow..."

It's virtually impossible to search for a specific person anyway. If you really want to play againt a person SO BAD that you're so dedicated searching all the games for him, (and you'd have to search multiple times cuz they might have switched to another map) THEN it's probably your friend. You really want to play with someone who's your friend, not an enemy.

If anyone is ever going to meet up, they would add eachother on skype or something and plan which game to fight on, hence, an enemy list/challenge list is useless.
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Re: RE:ENEMY LIST (I am dissapointed)

Postby Kazy » 8 January 2017, 03:16

Max teabag wrote:It's virtually impossible to search for a specific person anyway. If you really want to play againt a person SO BAD that you're so dedicated searching all the games for him, (and you'd have to search multiple times cuz they might have switched to another map)

You know, you can look specific people up with the forum and site players search thing.
And if that doesn't work you can still do it with the account URLs and just change the username.
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Re: RE:ENEMY LIST (I am dissapointed)

Postby Max teabag » 8 January 2017, 03:19

Kazy wrote:
Max teabag wrote:It's virtually impossible to search for a specific person anyway. If you really want to play againt a person SO BAD that you're so dedicated searching all the games for him, (and you'd have to search multiple times cuz they might have switched to another map)

You know, you can look specific people up with the forum and site players search thing.
And if that doesn't work you can still do it with the account URLs and just change the username.

I meant searching in-game, meaning which game they're playing currently.
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Re: RE:ENEMY LIST (I am dissapointed)

Postby Kazy » 8 January 2017, 03:22

Max teabag wrote:[...]

Like, if you remember her/his username you can still look it up and send a message.
You'd need completly new feature for looking people up ingame which'd actually be handy.
That's maybe going to be a thing for PB2.5 then. :P
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Re: RE:ENEMY LIST (I am dissapointed)

Postby AI Robot » 8 January 2017, 03:25

It should Just be Removed or Enforce Rules On the Enemies list.

Kazy wrote:
Max teabag wrote:[...]

Like, if you remember her/his username you can still look it up and send a message.
You'd need completly new feature for looking people up ingame which'd actually be handy.
That's maybe going to be a thing for PB2.5 then. :P

Well it could be annoying if someone keeps stalking you.
Last edited by KIRIAKOS GR96 on 8 January 2017, 15:28, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Double post
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Re: RE:ENEMY LIST (I am dissapointed)

Postby Dariy » 8 January 2017, 04:21

I am glad someone reposted this since I think it's a problem that should be solved one way or another.
As I said before there's no point of having this system, but if you do keep it just "make it better" at least.
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Re: RE:ENEMY LIST (I am dissapointed)

Postby KIRIAKOS GR96 » 8 January 2017, 16:16

AI Robot dont double post the next time use the edit button.

Ontopic:To be honest i never used the enemy list and i dont realy care if someone add me into its enemy list.Perhaps to change the purpose of this list with rename it and not to be able to see if the other is online it does not sound like a bad idea i would like to hear ways how to make it better from all.
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Re: RE:ENEMY LIST (I am dissapointed)

Postby darkstar 1 » 8 January 2017, 16:35

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Re: RE:ENEMY LIST (I am dissapointed)

Postby tehswordninja » 8 January 2017, 18:19

I have to agree with you max. I've never ever used the enemy list and I kinda don't like it when people put me on their enemy lists, cause I have zero idea why I'm on it. Do they just not like me? Did they put me on their enemy list so it is easier for them to see if I am online? Etc etc.

I definitely agree with your points on the system being misused. I mean, if you made a door that has no knob on one side, and it opens outwards, but it really opens inwards, and people try to push it outwards, thats not their fault, its the system's because it looks like it is something else than it is intended for. I mean, really, who looks at the enemy list and goes "these are my challengers?"


Kazy wrote:And yes, as you have seen these words came straight out of a head moderator. c:

Being a bit more serious/less sarcastic would be nice considering you're a head mod, regardless if people are overreacting.
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Re: RE:ENEMY LIST (I am dissapointed)

Postby MI6 AGENT 007 » 8 January 2017, 21:14

Boy I have to agree with the people who think it's broken because it is. Maxim 12 had an opinion it's broke and he stated good reasons why. Now people start disagreeing because his opinion doesn't match others this is crazy to me I think it's broken and it's very obvious to all people but some just don't want to admit it but lie and say "oh no its not broken it's the people misusing it" for god sake admit the system is goddamn trash because it is. Nobody can't just find a way to come up with a solution that's fits almost everyone's ideas about it. As soon one person states about a feature being misused and proves it nobody still doesn't agree and they say "that's a horrible reason/opinion " instead of saying "okay that's not a bad reason /opinion and it's true " but no everyone just wants one person ideas to match theirs. That's not how things work. Nobody just doesn't cooperate and take everybody's ideas to try to come up with one solution. We are certainly lacking of cooperation and it's like it's been thrown out the window and doesn't exist anymore. Some of these posts about telling people to leave or get out just because someone ideas doesn't match theirs it's just pathetic. Especially what I saw on the last topic about the enemies list so much arguments and disagreeing. This is just sad.
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Re: RE:ENEMY LIST (I am dissapointed)

Postby maxim12 » 8 January 2017, 23:58

Max teabag wrote:Very large Text.

Finaly! Someone who gets my point!

DoomWrath wrote:Maybe it could be fixed with the following:

Rename "Enemy List" to "Challenged List"
Rename "Add player to Enemy List" to "Challenge Player"
Rename "Hated By" list to "Challenged By"


Thats a very Intelligent Idea, I support that. Evn though, I would Remove the [Rename "Hated By" list to "Challenged By"] part, cause I don't think It's really needed. But that's my opinion, maybe It could have some uses.

Still, I'm afraid it will still be abused like the currect one.

But I also have my own suggestion:
It should be replaced with Track list.

Max teabag wrote:How did these words come out of a head moderator? This is an utterly pointless critique. The reason we make rant-posts is to help. To suggest leaving the game instead of helping it is absurd.


What do you expect from the Today's moderators? It's not like the modertators we used to have in the past; More mature, more respectfull, knowning how to actualy moderate the forum and how to be adequate towards It's users.

Meh, I hope when Eric will release PB2.5, he would reconsider the mods.

Max teabag wrote:
maxim wrote:"It's not the fault of the feature It'self, but rather the fault of the people use it"

No he's not right. Why are you guys defending a system where you have to display to everyone "I HATE THIS PERSON" in order to really say "I WANT TO SEE WHEN HE'S ONLINE."


To tell the turth, I wrote this not because I actualy mean't it, but rather because I just decided to "Capitulate". Because if it would be continued, It would be turned into major Forum battleground coflict or "Forum World War.", and I would be ended up being hated and being called random insulting names (They already once called me "Israeli kid", It's very Insulting. Even if I'm Russian.).

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Re: RE:ENEMY LIST (I am dissapointed)

Postby rayriflepie » 9 January 2017, 00:25

@Max Teabag Eric must have removed it now. But Wasted Time is still on my enemies list because I added him before it was removed. (You don't have to be a genius to figure out why I hate him.)
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Re: RE:ENEMY LIST (I am dissapointed)

Postby MI6 AGENT 007 » 9 January 2017, 01:38

maxim12 wrote:
Max teabag wrote:Very large Text.

Finaly! Someone who gets my point!
I get your point but it's a shame no else does except for those who do. You stated good reasons why it was broken now everyone just needs to find a solution to this whole BS.
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Re: RE:ENEMY LIST (I am dissapointed)

Postby Dariy » 9 January 2017, 02:40

MI6 AGENT 007 wrote:
maxim12 wrote:
Max teabag wrote:Very large Text.

Finaly! Someone who gets my point!
I get your point but it's a shame no else does except for those who do. You stated good reasons why it was broken now everyone just needs to find a solution to this whole BS.


It's fixed, they removed the enemy list.
If you added people before this, those people will stay on your list.
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