[EDIT REQUEST] stryde-sniper

Approved Map Edit Requests

[EDIT REQUEST] stryde-sniper

Postby CreeperHunter55 » 16 June 2020, 14:50

[A]
- I have read and understand fully the Required Reading for posting an Approved Map Edit Request: YES
- I have read and understand fully the Approved Map Edit Request rules: YES
- I have confirmed that this map is currently approved: YES

[B]
- Map Name: Sniperwars
- Map ID: stryde-sniper
- Link to Map Page: https://www.plazmaburst2.com/?s=9&a=&m= ... &id=231078
- Link to Map Demo: https://www.plazmaburst2.com/?s=2&map=stryde-sniper

[C]
- Do you think this map need a minor edit, or a major overhaul?: minor
- In a few words, why is an edit required?: spam, farm, rank abuse
- In detail, what exactly is wrong with the map, and what exactly needs to be edited?: The size of this Approved map is very small for 8 players or 4 vs 4. There is no question about any tactics here, if you just respawn, shoot at a random place and get a free kill, and then you die in 5 seconds. Imagine if all 8 players will also spam the HE nades after each respawn.
For example, my approved creeperhunter55-idk (or nyove-ray) map is also small and also had a maximum of 8 players, but since it became possible to edit approved maps, I fixed that issue to 4 maximum players, so that there was no random spam and farm kills/deaths. After all, ranked does not involve such gameplay in its wise.
- Any other comments: Ranked abuse map

I just joined for 10 sec in the full match and did 3 shots.

Last edited by CreeperHunter55 on 27 June 2020, 22:05, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] stryde-sniper

Postby kubakuba » 16 June 2020, 14:56

Good idea, it should reduce lag.
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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] stryde-sniper

Postby Stryde » 17 June 2020, 00:51

Why is it that time and time again people continue to try and get stryde-sniper unapproved or changed?
You aren't proposing any direct change to the map, but a change to the number of people that can play the map at any given time. If you, or anyone else, actually still plays multiplayer, you would know that there is an option for selecting how many people can play in a game lobby. In case you haven't played multiplayer in a while, this is what it looks like (by the way, this feature has been here since before this map even came out):


Also, this has come up before and has even been commented on by PB administrators viewtopic.php?f=179&t=20436&start=80

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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] stryde-sniper

Postby phsc » 17 June 2020, 01:24

kubakuba wrote:Good idea, it should reduce lag.

if this map lags with 8 people why wouldnt any other map with 8 people lag? wtf r u talking about? how to objectively measure lag?

CreeperHunter55 wrote:There is no question about any tactics here, if you just respawn, shoot at a random place and get a free kill, and then you die in 5 seconds. Imagine if all 8 players will also spam the HE nades after each respawn.
Ranked abuse map
I just joined for 10 sec in the full match and did 3 shots.

ok so, if you can easily get kills and quickly die, what is the problem? isnt skill what differenciates a good player and a bad player in this situation? you join get a gun and shoot or get shot, because you might also be the target of someone else who "shoots at a random place and gets a free kill", same for the nade spam, how is this used for some form of abuse if it is in a general way balanced? actually its the opposite since you lose the nades after a while, making mantaining a high kd in this map kinda hard

also the grenade spam thing is a tactic, as google defines it "an action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end." which does apply, it also implies skill since some random new player prob wont think of that or execute that very well

the number of people does make this map a mess but i dont think that is a problem at all, it actually might be even more balanced in DM than having fewer players since it is very hard for you to survive long and get a ton of kills
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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] stryde-sniper

Postby CreeperHunter55 » 17 June 2020, 10:13

Spoiler: Show More
Stryde wrote:Why is it that time and time again people continue to try and get stryde-sniper unapproved or changed?
You aren't proposing any direct change to the map, but a change to the number of people that can play the map at any given time. If you, or anyone else, actually still plays multiplayer, you would know that there is an option for selecting how many people can play in a game lobby. In case you haven't played multiplayer in a while, this is what it looks like (by the way, this feature has been here since before this map even came out):


Also, this has come up before and has even been commented on by PB administrators viewtopic.php?f=179&t=20436&start=80


1. "Why is it that time and time again people continue to try and get stryde-sniper unapproved or changed?" — because it has the one big problem that I talked out above, objectively. Perhaps this should mean something, since requests have been received for such a long time.
2. "You aren't proposing any direct change to the map, but a change to the number of people that can play the map at any given time" — In fact, this is a direct change to the map, you need to go to your Map Source and remove 4 players and 8 extra weapons.
3. "If you, or anyone else, actually still plays multiplayer, you would know that there is an option for selecting how many people can play in a game lobby. In case you haven't played multiplayer in a while, this is what it looks like" — I'm sorry that you indirectly question my competence, but we are talking only about the map here. I guess the 900+ level in my profile has something to say to you, before telling that I do not understand how PB2 MP works, let's not go back to that again.
4. "(by the way, this feature has been here since before this map even came out)" — So I can put 16 max players on all my approved maps, and then the choice is left to the players? Don't you think it's not a strong argument, if it's an argument at all? The map should be perfect in gameplay and balance (not between teams here), the map must be perfect in its source, which I don't see here. So far, this is a farm arena. A good map for custom games, but not for competitive mode.
I also forgot to indicate that this map does not meet one of the requirements for approved maps, namely: "When map is designed for 2 teams in COOP, make sure that players can't kill at the start of each round. Players must feel/be safe during the first 2 seconds of each COOP round start".
Spoiler: Show More

And why, if you are allowed to use so many maximum players on your map of this size, then the rest of other map makers can't? For example, Nyove-trace. This map is even slightly larger than the one we are discussing, but it still has a maximum of 6 players, regardless of the choice of players. Also, players must choose a fair and adequate number of players provided for this map, that is, the maximum value for this map or less. But not 16 players, for example, for a map that is supposed to be 1 vs 1. The rights must be the same for everyone. If it does not, I call the side with an unfair advantage — Monopoly and OG.
5. "Also, this has come up before and has even been commented on by PB administrators" — Just because it's the administration doesn't mean anything yet so far. You may need to check for possible corruption or incompetence of the admin.
Last edited by CreeperHunter55 on 17 June 2020, 20:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] stryde-sniper

Postby phsc » 17 June 2020, 10:35

CreeperHunter55 wrote:1. "Why is it that time and time again people continue to try and get stryde-sniper unapproved or changed?" — because it has the one big problem that I talked out above, objectively. Perhaps this should mean something, since requests have been received for such a long time.

the general definition of problem implies that it is a problem within a set of rules, in this case the set of rules is not specified in your post, however you do mention what i believe is the set of rules you are talking about, but since you are not defining what makes this a problem you are pretty much saying "in my opinion this is a problem" which is not objective
3. "If you, or anyone else, actually still plays multiplayer, you would know that there is an option for selecting how many people can play in a game lobby. In case you haven't played multiplayer in a while, this is what it looks like" — I'm sorry that you indirectly question my competence, but we are talking only about the map here. I guess the 900+ level in my profile has something to say to you, before telling that I do not understand how PB2 MP works, let's not go back to that again.

i love how everybody who plays this game into some "competitive" level is so deliciously exquisite pizza sauce miserable and they deliciously exquisite pizza sauce take everything personally, but its irrelevant anyway, having experience doesnt only mean you understand how things work, it either means you are dumb (you have experience and you dont understand how things work), this is completely irrelevant to the topic btw

4. "(by the way, this feature has been here since before this map even came out)" — So I can put 16 max players on all my approved maps, and then the choice is left to the players? Don't you think it's not a strong argument, if it's an argument at all? The map should be perfect in gameplay and balance (not between teams here), the map must be perfect in its source, which I don't see here. So far, this is a farm arena. A good map for custom games, but not for competitive mode.

it is an argument as in what you are saying is your own personal preference of how the map should be played, the fact you want it with less players, you can solve that by creating a match with fewer players, instead of editing the map and taking out the other option, which would make the map worse for everybody else pretty much, also how do you achieve the numbers you use? its pretty damn arbitrary to me

really makes me think, btw before you get into discussions n all go learn about some logical fallacies n how logic works, leibniz, spinoza, descartes, schopenhauer (good for begginers), godel, frege, bertrand russel, wittgenstein, kant, aristotle, even wikipedia does it
I also forgot to indicate that this map does not meet one of the requirements for approved maps, namely: "When map is designed for 2 teams in COOP, make sure that players can't kill at the start of each round. Players must feel/be safe during the first 2 seconds of each COOP round start".
Spoiler: Show More


this has been talked about before, read viewtopic.php?f=179&t=20436
they can't be killed, they can be damaged, but cannot be killed, stryde replied to that, theres a lot of discussion that achieved nothing

And why, if you are allowed to use so many maximum players on your map of this size, then the rest of other map makers can't? For example, Nyove-trace. This map is even slightly larger than the one we are discussing, but it still has a maximum of 6 players, regardless of the choice of players.

maybe that is just nyove's opinion on how his map should be?

Also, players must choose a fair and adequate number of players provided for this map, that is, the maximum value for this map or less.

how do you even determine that value buddy? in an objective way i mean

But not 16 players, for example, for a map that is supposed to be 1 vs 1. The rights must be the same for everyone. If it does not, I call the side with an unfair advantage — Monopoly and OG.
5. "Also, this has come up before and has even been commented on by PB administrators" — Just because it's the administration doesn't mean anything yet so far.

the rights are the same for everyone, turns out you ignored my response, maybe because im not stryde
how is this a monopoly tho what the deliciously exquisite pizza sauce are you even talking about it is perfectly symmetrical how does one side have an advantage

also it literally means that a lot has happened, the poll was closed because nobody could argue for it being unnaproved, viewtopic.php?f=179&t=20436 deliciously exquisite pizza sauce read before talking shit on the forums

You may need to check for possible corruption or incompetence of the admin.

hey dude BoZ is a huge mafia that pays staff to do stuff they want and it has been like that for years, i mean before they were the staff, ur into something but beware they might make an offer you cant refuse, beware
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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] stryde-sniper

Postby CreeperHunter55 » 17 June 2020, 13:27

Spoiler: Show More
phsc wrote:
kubakuba wrote:Good idea, it should reduce lag.

if this map lags with 8 people why wouldnt any other map with 8 people lag? wtf r u talking about? how to objectively measure lag?

CreeperHunter55 wrote:There is no question about any tactics here, if you just respawn, shoot at a random place and get a free kill, and then you die in 5 seconds. Imagine if all 8 players will also spam the HE nades after each respawn.
Ranked abuse map
I just joined for 10 sec in the full match and did 3 shots.

ok so, if you can easily get kills and quickly die, what is the problem? isnt skill what differenciates a good player and a bad player in this situation? you join get a gun and shoot or get shot, because you might also be the target of someone else who "shoots at a random place and gets a free kill", same for the nade spam, how is this used for some form of abuse if it is in a general way balanced? actually its the opposite since you lose the nades after a while, making mantaining a high kd in this map kinda hard

also the grenade spam thing is a tactic, as google defines it "an action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end." which does apply, it also implies skill since some random new player prob wont think of that or execute that very well

the number of people does make this map a mess but i dont think that is a problem at all, it actually might be even more balanced in DM than having fewer players since it is very hard for you to survive long and get a ton of kills


1. "if this map lags with 8 people why wouldnt any other map with 8 people lag? wth r u talking about? how to objectively measure lag?" — I would ask you to calm down. If a person is lagging in a full match map, he have the right to say so and do not need to be so rude.
2. "ok so, if you can easily get kills and quickly die, what is the problem? isnt skill what differenciates a good player and a bad player in this situation?" — What skill are you talking about? Move the mouse on the screen and click on LBM in a random place and get a kill, even my grandma can do that. What skill are you talking about? Pass a couple of seconds from the respawn and get 4 random bullets from all ends of the map from different players and so from time to time? What skill are you talking about? Constantly use the same map for months in ranked, because it is very easy to farm kills? Is the game on the same map shows the real skill? But okay, this is a question for the developers of the rotation system, why they will not make available ranked only for maps in rotation.
3. "you join get a gun and shoot or get shot, because you might also be the target of someone else who "shoots at a random place and gets a free kill", same for the nade spam, how is this used for some form of abuse if it is in a general way balanced?" — Good tactics, for custom maps. We can say in this case that if instead of sniper rifles and HE nades all give out BNG, then there will be no difference. And what? Either you kill, or you be killed, just have time to respawn. Will everything explode? So what's the problem, grenades also explode.
4. "actually its the opposite since you lose the nades after a while, making mantaining a high kd in this map kinda hard" — It even won't have time to run out, as you will die and be respawned again with a full supply. And you just pointed out that regardless of the skill, everyone will spam-die, because it's impossible not to get wet in the rain.
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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] stryde-sniper

Postby CreeperHunter55 » 17 June 2020, 13:53

phsc wrote:
CreeperHunter55 wrote:1. "Why is it that time and time again people continue to try and get stryde-sniper unapproved or changed?" — because it has the one big problem that I talked out above, objectively. Perhaps this should mean something, since requests have been received for such a long time.

the general definition of problem implies that it is a problem within a set of rules, in this case the set of rules is not specified in your post, however you do mention what i believe is the set of rules you are talking about, but since you are not defining what makes this a problem you are pretty much saying "in my opinion this is a problem" which is not objective
3. "If you, or anyone else, actually still plays multiplayer, you would know that there is an option for selecting how many people can play in a game lobby. In case you haven't played multiplayer in a while, this is what it looks like" — I'm sorry that you indirectly question my competence, but we are talking only about the map here. I guess the 900+ level in my profile has something to say to you, before telling that I do not understand how PB2 MP works, let's not go back to that again.

i love how everybody who plays this game into some "competitive" level is so deliciously exquisite pizza sauce miserable and they deliciously exquisite pizza sauce take everything personally, but its irrelevant anyway, having experience doesnt only mean you understand how things work, it either means you are dumb (you have experience and you dont understand how things work), this is completely irrelevant to the topic btw

4. "(by the way, this feature has been here since before this map even came out)" — So I can put 16 max players on all my approved maps, and then the choice is left to the players? Don't you think it's not a strong argument, if it's an argument at all? The map should be perfect in gameplay and balance (not between teams here), the map must be perfect in its source, which I don't see here. So far, this is a farm arena. A good map for custom games, but not for competitive mode.

it is an argument as in what you are saying is your own personal preference of how the map should be played, the fact you want it with less players, you can solve that by creating a match with fewer players, instead of editing the map and taking out the other option, which would make the map worse for everybody else pretty much, also how do you achieve the numbers you use? its pretty damn arbitrary to me

really makes me think, btw before you get into discussions n all go learn about some logical fallacies n how logic works, leibniz, spinoza, descartes, schopenhauer (good for begginers), godel, frege, bertrand russel, wittgenstein, kant, aristotle, even wikipedia does it
I also forgot to indicate that this map does not meet one of the requirements for approved maps, namely: "When map is designed for 2 teams in COOP, make sure that players can't kill at the start of each round. Players must feel/be safe during the first 2 seconds of each COOP round start".
Spoiler: Show More


this has been talked about before, read viewtopic.php?f=179&t=20436
they can't be killed, they can be damaged, but cannot be killed, stryde replied to that, theres a lot of discussion that achieved nothing

And why, if you are allowed to use so many maximum players on your map of this size, then the rest of other map makers can't? For example, Nyove-trace. This map is even slightly larger than the one we are discussing, but it still has a maximum of 6 players, regardless of the choice of players.

maybe that is just nyove's opinion on how his map should be?

Also, players must choose a fair and adequate number of players provided for this map, that is, the maximum value for this map or less.

how do you even determine that value buddy? in an objective way i mean

But not 16 players, for example, for a map that is supposed to be 1 vs 1. The rights must be the same for everyone. If it does not, I call the side with an unfair advantage — Monopoly and OG.
5. "Also, this has come up before and has even been commented on by PB administrators" — Just because it's the administration doesn't mean anything yet so far.

the rights are the same for everyone, turns out you ignored my response, maybe because im not stryde
how is this a monopoly tho what the deliciously exquisite pizza sauce are you even talking about it is perfectly symmetrical how does one side have an advantage

also it literally means that a lot has happened, the poll was closed because nobody could argue for it being unnaproved, viewtopic.php?f=179&t=20436 deliciously exquisite pizza sauce read before talking shit on the forums

You may need to check for possible corruption or incompetence of the admin.

hey dude BoZ is a huge mafia that pays staff to do stuff they want and it has been like that for years, i mean before they were the staff, ur into something but beware they might make an offer you cant refuse, beware


1. "the general definition of problem implies that it is a problem within a set of rules, in this case the set of rules is not specified in your post, however you do mention what i believe is the set of rules you are talking about, but since you are not defining what makes this a problem you are pretty much saying "in my opinion this is a problem" which is not objective" — Even the concept of objectivity is subjective. But can we tell the difference between mad people and normal people? I think that the edge of normality is somewhere in the middle. What is missing from this map. Gameplay here is just mad, mess.
2. "i love how everybody who plays this game into some "competitive" level is so deliciously exquisite pizza sauce miserable and they deliciously exquisite pizza sauce take everything personally, but its irrelevant anyway, having experience doesnt only mean you understand how things work, it either means you are dumb (you have experience and you dont understand how things work), this is completely irrelevant to the topic btw" — I said it's not relevant, so why did you bring it up again? Is this a provocation?
3. "it is an argument as in what you are saying is your own personal preference of how the map should be played, the fact you want it with less players, you can solve that by creating a match with fewer players, instead of editing the map and taking out the other option, which would make the map worse for everybody else pretty much, also how do you achieve the numbers you use? its pretty damn arbitrary to me" —The limit of players must initially correspond to the proportions of the map in its Source, I do not know how to argue here, this is a dead end.
4. "really makes me think, btw before you get into discussions n all go learn about some logical fallacies n how logic works, leibniz, spinoza, descartes, schopenhauer (good for begginers), godel, frege, bertrand russel, wittgenstein, kant, aristotle, even wikipedia does it" — How do discord discussions relate to this map? If you want to discuss something off-topic, it is better to write to me in discord, and not clog up the discussion.
5. "this has been talked about before, read viewtopic.php?f=179&t=20436
they can't be killed, they can be damaged, but cannot be killed, stryde replied to that, theres a lot of discussion that achieved nothing
" — Ok, I agree with that one.
6. "maybe that is just nyove's opinion on how his map should be?" — No, it is opinion of the Approval Team.
7. "how do you even determine that value buddy? in an objective way i mean" — I think I clearly explained that players will not be able to choose the maximum value, for example, higher than 4 players, for a map that is created only for 4. you Can either 4 or less. And it will be fair.
8. "the rights are the same for everyone, turns out you ignored my response, maybe because im not stryde
how is this a monopoly tho what the deliciously exquisite pizza sauce are you even talking about it is perfectly symmetrical how does one side have an advantage
" — First, I noted that the advantage is not in the sides, you should read more carefully. Secondly, I'm really not going to answer you anymore because you write a lot off topic and provoke. And yes, I'm here to discuss the map's problem with its owner and official faces of the PB2.
9. "hey dude BoZ is a huge mafia that pays staff to do stuff they want and it has been like that for years, i mean before they were the staff, ur into something but beware they might make an offer you cant refuse, beware" — Great, I'm already being threatened. Very reasonable.
Last edited by CreeperHunter55 on 17 June 2020, 20:42, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] stryde-sniper

Postby Aero- » 17 June 2020, 18:44

hey dude BoZ is a huge mafia that pays staff to do stuff they want and it has been like that for years, i mean before they were the staff, ur into something but beware they might make an offer you cant refuse, beware

bro what the fúck are you smoking LMFAO
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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] stryde-sniper

Postby phsc » 17 June 2020, 21:09

CreeperHunter55 wrote:Even the concept of objectivity is subjective. But can we tell the difference between mad people and normal people? I think that the edge of normality is somewhere in the middle. What is missing from this map. Gameplay here is just mad, mess.

yes, but if we are not discussing within some "objective" framework or set of rules it is impossible to have a real discussion, in this case later on i assume you are using the approval criteria for a map, which some of the problems you mention do not affect
the second part of what you wrote makes no sense at all? mad people and normal people are also subjective criteria, even including psychology and scientific research, i do however think this is some metaphor which i dont understand? how is it relevant?
just because the map is a mess (in your opinion and definition of mess, which is a VERY subjective word, more than normal because of how often people use different meanings because a mess is comparative and mostly within ones preferences), and mad makes no sense in this

2. "i love how everybody who plays this game into some "competitive" level is so deliciously exquisite pizza sauce miserable and they deliciously exquisite pizza sauce take everything personally, but its irrelevant anyway, having experience doesnt only mean you understand how things work, it either means you are dumb (you have experience and you dont understand how things work), this is completely irrelevant to the topic btw" — I
I said it's not relevant, so why did you bring it up again? Is this a provocation?

because you still mentioned that you are level 900+ and that indirectly implies you think that level should correlate to skill or understanding of the game, which is false, and also based on the fact that most approval discussions, mostly the other stryde-sniper one, had a bunch of people who kept talking about how deliciously exquisite pizza sauce good they are and some other dumb shit, if you were to consider that a valid way of discussing with me, knowing it early would make this last a smaller amount of time

The limit of players must initially correspond to the proportions of the map in its Source, I do not know how to argue here, this is a dead end.

yeah, because this isnt a problem

How do discord discussions relate to this map? If you want to discuss something off-topic, it is better to write to me in discord, and not clog up the discussion.

this is more so you learn about logic before discussing about basically anything (you do seem to be much better than basically everyone else, but just read the later discussions last time someone tried to get this map edited or unnaproved, there were so many fallacies being used, and i mean at your first comment you are also hitting some, almost, just to be sure, more of a long term thing (i mean its not like someone who uses a fallacy would deliciously exquisite pizza sauce read something, its unlikely, but you do seem to value objectivity to some degree and you seem better at this than the people who wanetd this map edited or unnaproved in the past)

5. "this has been talked about before, read viewtopic.php?f=179&t=20436
they can't be killed, they can be damaged, but cannot be killed, stryde replied to that, theres a lot of discussion that achieved nothing
" — Ok, I agree with that one.

congratulations, you are now the first person who ive seen change their mind about this map about something

No, it is opinion of the Approval Team.

where? they set it up according to the map developer to set it, however if staff has a problem they will mention that, its up to the mapmaker, however if the map could also work with more people, the person might not have added more players because of their own preference before staff can judge it for approval, maybe that is not the case in that specific map because i lack the knowledge about it but this is also a possibility (that is much more common in my experience with people wanting their maps approved)

I think I clearly explained that players will not be able to choose the maximum value, for example, higher than 4 players, for a map that is created only for 4. you Can either 4 or less. And it will be fair.

this makes no sense? how is this OBJECTIVE, i mean what is the real problem with a higher player ocunt? why 4 and not 6? why 4 and not 2? etc, why is this specific number the right one, and why not 8 i mean i made some other arguments which you did not reply to

First, I noted that the advantage is not in the sides, you should read more carefully. Secondly, I'm really not going to answer you anymore because you write a lot off topic and provoke. And yes, I'm here to discuss the map's problem with its owner and official faces of the PB2.

I LOVE THIS, ok ok so here is the thing, you ignored some of my points, replied, and now you are going to ignore me for a thing completely unrelated to logic or objectivity, for a personal preference, that being you cant handle argumentation when people are making fun of you INDIRECTLY, but this shows my point, back to what you said

you are considering my personality, with that you do not want to argue with me (you are running away from discussion, which means you do not have a point and you are going to ignore mine, which is pretty damn typical, a lot of people did that in the past, makes sense to run away), but, you will still reply to people who you think are worthy replying (stryde and staff members?), which is completely irrelevant to the discussion and it shows that you actually said a thing that is false, you do consider people's personality, AND THAT YOU DO NOT SEE COUNTERARGUMENTS in front of you, and you are also using an ad hominem here since who says what is irrelevant to any discussion, if you do want to achieve "truth" or "fairness" or "balance" or whatever, which turns out you dont
you also did this while ignoring some points i made earlier, which you did not reply to, such as why people being able to spam grenades and kill each other being a problem, as in for this map not to be approved, instead of just your personal problem (which stryde replied with "just create some match with a lower number of max players") which solves that preference of yours while not ruining the map for others


Great, I'm already being threatened. Very reasonable.

Aero- wrote:bro what the fúck are you smoking LMFAO

this is obviously sarcasm, and im just making fun of mostly the part where he said that staff is corrupt, the end of the other stryde sniper discussion was during a period of time BoZ members barely played PB2 anyway, its so deliciously exquisite pizza sauce irrelevant and really shows how biased this dude is, its such a ridiculous idea, incompetence could be true but it also shows his incompetency by not reading older topics on getting this unapproved, im making fun of him, and he took it literally or something? it is very reasonable, its not a fallacy or something, its a method of argumentation (appeal to ridicule), corruption in PB2, really? and even if there is corruption, who the deliciously exquisite pizza sauce cares and what are you going to do, turns out centralized power systems work well with corruption and complaining about it does nothing (turns out a lot of politicians are corrupt for a reason!)



tldr: i make arguments, dude ignores a few, picks a few, admits that im right in some, then runs away because he cant argue and after saying he "doesnt care about the cult of personality and only sees counterargumentation" but will only reply to specific personalities of this game and wont reply to me because i make him insecure or smth, ad hominem
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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] stryde-sniper

Postby CreeperHunter55 » 17 June 2020, 22:23

If you want to see the full argue with @phsc, link below for you:
Oficcial PB2 chat in discord.
https://discord.com/channels/3286506457 ... 0299140119

In short:
Complex terms and provocations with stupid sarcastic jokes don't make you look big brained person, and such a circus should not affect the topic of discussion in any way
You're shouting over your opponent and you don't have any respect for him
You still cling to the words
Smart words don't make you smarter. On the contrary, knowledgeable people explain everything in simple language, in a calm tone and with respect or at least tolerance. You are not a worthy opponent.
And yes, I answer to the counterarguments, not to the trolling, and I went here to discuss only about the map.

I demand that this person be excluded from the discussion because of his apparent inadequacy
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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] stryde-sniper

Postby phsc » 18 June 2020, 01:31

Complex terms and provocations with stupid sarcastic jokes don't make you look big brained person, and such a circus should not affect the topic of discussion in any way

cope

You're shouting over your opponent and you don't have any respect for him

online shouting big anger issues

You still cling to the words

wtf?

Smart words don't make you smarter. On the contrary, knowledgeable people explain everything in simple language, in a calm tone and with respect or at least tolerance. You are not a worthy opponent.
~
ad hominem alert ad hominem alert
so i did explain them in simpler words later (i explained what an ad hominem is), turns out you ignored it, just like you ignored many of the points i mentioned, because that is all you can do, ignore, now you are ignoring me because i am not a "worthy opponent", there is no such thing as calm tone or not online, wtf are you even talking about, even then it is irrelevant, you're the one who said you don't care about personality yet only arguments, i have already shown how that is false, cope

And yes, I answer to the counterarguments, not to the trolling, and I went here to discuss only about the map.

yes using sarcasm for arguments is trolling so its not valid, voltaire is such a deliciously exquisite pizza sauce pizza sauce, he uses sarcasm! all he says is invalid! this is some fallacy i forgot the name of, the tone or method of communication is irrelevant to the discussion buddy

also demand whatever you want, you cant even get this map edited do you think anyone cares about the fact you can cope with how deliciously exquisite pizza sauce retarded you are and the fact ive won this discussion vs u?
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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] stryde-sniper

Postby phsc » 18 June 2020, 01:43

i forgot to reply to this
I would ask you to calm down. If a person is lagging in a full match map, he have the right to say so and do not need to be so rude.

what the deliciously exquisite pizza sauce how is this rude "if this map lags with 8 people why wouldnt any other map with 8 people lag? wth r u talking about? how to objectively measure lag?" its not rude, it makes no sense, if soemone lags in stryde sniper that person lags in basically any other map, he can complain but its irrelevant, my deliciously exquisite pizza sauce 500 kb RAM computer doesnt run stryde-sniper so edit it!!!!

What skill are you talking about? Move the mouse on the screen and click on LBM in a random place and get a kill, even my grandma can do that. What skill are you talking about? Pass a couple of seconds from the respawn and get 4 random bullets from all ends of the map from different players and so from time to time? What skill are you talking about? Constantly use the same map for months in ranked, because it is very easy to farm kills? Is the game on the same map shows the real skill? But okay, this is a question for the developers of the rotation system, why they will not make available ranked only for maps in rotation.

yeah, that is a skill, you must know where is likely for people to be, ur grandma might be capable of learning it, its still skill, just doesnt have a very high skill cap, not a problem this game in general has a very low one, its skill, someone at some point doesnt die to be able to get the shots off, the one who does that is the "skilled" one, using the same map is pretty valid, nobody in other games complains about this, someone in cs who is only good in a single map might... just play the same map, no competitive potential tho, same in DOTA or league, play the same hero/champ? no problem, not very good in real competitive scenarios, in this case that is plazma league, not a problem at all

Good tactics, for custom maps. We can say in this case that if instead of sniper rifles and HE nades all give out BNG, then there will be no difference. And what? Either you kill, or you be killed, just have time to respawn. Will everything explode? So what's the problem, grenades also explode.

no, there will be difference, grenades are limited, mostly in COOP, snipers have long reload times and dont do area damage, grenades also dont go far, you are making a very false comparation, grenades are limited and you can easily escape them since there is a delay, BNGs dont have that

It even won't have time to run out, as you will die and be respawned again with a full supply. And you just pointed out that regardless of the skill, everyone will spam-die, because it's impossible not to get wet in the rain.

casual reminder you can reflect bullets with you swords, if constantly press it you might get it off, so explain to me, if every time you respawn you die, how do people... join in the first place? the one who joined first in the map is the one who has the advantage? or is 4 the minimum value as you say? its very luck based because it depends on where you spawn, however those who at the right opportunity dont deliciously exquisite pizza sauce up are the ones who are rewarded and can get many kills, and the fact everybody will die at some point due to spam makes this map not very easy to farm, see the inconsistensy?
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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] stryde-sniper

Postby phsc » 19 June 2020, 22:13

so creeperhunter55 replied on discord, heres his points https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png
according to him its offtopic, however the discussion of skill

Skill is a set of concepts, for a second. And in fact, it doesn't have much to do with the map right now, because the problem is something else that I wrote above in topic that just prevents you from reaching your potential at this map. This map is for farmers, not skilled players. By the way, I often notice that some of TRU-PRO stryde-sniper on other maps just deeply swallow and ragequit after first death

skill is a set of concepts? wtf? how is this relevant, it has to do with the map btw, the style in which you play a rails map differs from a snipers map which differs from an arena map, thats why back then at least people were often good in some style of maps and bad at others, and im not talking about keeping high kdr or whatever, im talking about beating other players in it, most notably the boz matches i played when i was in boz a pretty long time ago, it shows pretty well that someone who is good at a thing might be bad at another
heres the thing, preventing you from reaching your potential skill in the map is actually good, since it means its more "balanced" in a certain way, might not be fair but its balanced, and how does that correalte with farming? the fact they ragequit after dying is irrelevant tho, i think its much more aobut the mentality of pb2 players, back then i saw people doing that in rails, also isnt there some feature that doesnt allow u to directly reconnect to a map if u leave tho? so how is this a problem

LMAO, PB2 is not about a one map even in Campaign. The comparison with CS is quite close to the truth. But to compare a plasma with a MOBA type of DotA, which based on heroes and their skills? Lmao x2. Btw, even in DotA, almost every update changes the map for the sake of balance. So, stryde-sniper need it too in your way of logic. +1.

??? maps imply what weapons you have and what tactics you can use, it defines it, literally, you cant like self boost in a small map that doesnt have the space for it, its actually close to MOBAs in a way, you can be good at few heroes (think of this as maps, like stryde-sniper is anti-mage or whatever), you can be good in a position (hard carry), and then idk xfrostbytex-snipezone is juggernaut, you can be good at snipers (hard carry), but be bad in rails (mid) or whatever, its a comparison, its not about skills, you take things in a very literal way and cant understand comparisons, it doesnt matter if it is not exactly the same, the idea is that you can spam a single thing to high places in the leaderboard, that being stryde-sniper, anti-mage or de_dust2, however in competitive play (tournaments, plazma league) its irrelevant, it might give you points but it doesnt make u an actual good player, like in every single game, also what if theres no way of playing that? maybe theres no stryde-sniper match or anti-mage is banned, what do you do? either nothing or you play poorly

also the thing about dota is literally false, ive been playing dota for many years (actually the reason i left boz was dota once lol), dota is in 7.26c, last map update was in 7.22, which was in 24 may 2019, more than a year without map updates, not to mention the fact dota spent like a year and a half in 6.88 which means no map changes as well, and map changes mostly come because of new features icefrog wants to add, its better to compare heroes, anti-mage might get small buffs because the map chagnes and that affects him (its like pb2 physics changing or whatever, its a thing that affects everything), that is just an adaptation to keep anti-mage viable in the patch, but dota has many more variables than PB2 anyway, this isnt a good comparison but its irrelevant, you took it the wrong way, its not about dotas map its about heroes and spammability, the fact you can spam your way to the top but not to the competitive top (plazma league in pb2s case or whatever?)

I get the impression that you haven't even read my counterargument... Also, can you multiply numbers by eight? LOL. You make it sound like only one person on the map has a sniper rifle and 2 grenades

i have, you read mine but dont understand them it seems like, you take things very literally in a weird way, cant understand sarcasm or comparisons, check for aspergers fr, but anyway, what happens is that, it doesnt matter if theres deliciously exquisite pizza sauce 16 grenades at the same time (that wont happen cuz u cant throw them at exactly the same time and even if that happens its extremely unlikely and you dont purely spam them, you use them when you can spam them and get a kill, not like u respawn, tehres nobody near u and u use them, but even then theres a delay u cant use), the grenade spam is actually good since it makes it extremely hard to survive, how is someone going to farm in a map like this? where ur not safe, u have to survive, that implies some form of skill, tf are you talking about, my point still goes on

>reflect bullets with you swords
You mean reflect the air which kills you? Did you play in MP with new netcode? XD Or you're talking about SP?
>how do people join in the first place

you still can reflect bullets in mp w the current netcode, its just much harder, if u have low ping its easier tho, its hard but possible, also if its luck based, why is it relevant? rng rounds to a value that is the same for everyone at the day, another dota example, you might get account buyers or boosters in the enemy team, that is irrelevant to your mmr gain, because in 1000 matches things should balance each other out, dont take it like im talking about dota its about the fact that statistically rng that affects all players equally is the same very long term for all players, unless someone only joins when theres few people, but that means less possibility for kills, fr explain how people farm in this map it makes no sense, mostly if u say the skill is low? tf, its so contradicotry

>people farm
>grenade spam kills people
>no need for skill
>luck based

how does someone end up being better than others (farming) if supposedly grenade spam is such a problem, the map has a low skill ceiling, and a lot of it is about luck? tf?
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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] stryde-sniper

Postby Incompetence » 21 June 2020, 04:09

ITT: OP expecting people to edit the map by his standards, also OP not liking what someone else is saying so he wants that person gone

CreeperHunter55 wrote:After all, ranked does not involve such gameplay in its wise.

first issue. you don't decide what ranked gameplay is. you're not in a position to. different ranked maps play differently so there is no one set gameplay structure. there are plenty of smaller elements in a map that dictate that map's gameplay from HP and the sandbox, right down to the player count.

CreeperHunter55 wrote:if you just respawn, shoot at a random place and get a free kill, and then you die in 5 seconds. Imagine if all 8 players will also spam the HE nades after each respawn.

you mention aiming at random places and getting kills. that's not specifically a map problem, that's just sheer luck that can happen in any other map. bad positioning can feed into this happening. people that can predict positioning can easily net kills the way you describe and speaks more to their skill than the map design itself. map design simply influences how easily or difficult you can build upon that predicting skill; faulty map design makes it easier to guess where people will go for instance if you have players funneled down specific lanes or areas or if there's very few areas that players end up in. stryde-sniper doesn't necessarily have faulty design, its size just makes it challenging to get good positioning in so the skill curve for positioning is a rather steep climb

this isn't a map where you sit in one place nor will this map let you. you have to keep moving, because you also have to dodge everyone else's shots. it's non-stop, frantic action with precision weapons that are incredibly unforgiving for inaccurate players.

CreeperHunter55 wrote:Gameplay here is just mad, mess.

it's a fast paced map with a fast paced sandbox. what's wrong with 8 players exactly? it's a perfect amount for a map that size without it being too chaotic. you call the gameplay a mess when that's the entire point. it's what makes it fun and a reason people got hooked on the map in the first place.

8 players basically means that there's always someone to kill and that you'll always be caught in the action. there's no downtime in this map because the map design doesn't allow it. it's not meant to. a lot of elements reinforce this gameplay loop: HP, weapon selection, map design, etc

this is a map that taps into that power fantasy of OHKing people; it feels good to constantly get kills with powerful weapons, and with snipers, it's satisfying to land shots on tricky targets. having 8 players lets players tap into that power fantasy constantly as long as they're competent enough to hit their shots. bad players will simply not last long because they'll die mid-reloading after they missed their shot. there's still room for error as simple and mindless as the gameplay is and where there's error, there's room for improvement. this alone means there is a skill curve that can be climbed. spamming shots can be mitigated by better positioning. you can punish people's accuracy by literally selfboosting around and moving. stryde-sniper helps build upon skills that a mass majority of maps don't focus on building, which is fine for players of a specific playstyle that maps like this cater to

CreeperHunter55 wrote:The limit of players must initially correspond to the proportions of the map in its Source, I do not know how to argue here, this is a dead end.

says who? how can you decide for the mapmaker what player count to put to the map? you don't know how to argue this because the point doesn't make any sense.

to even go about doing something like that, first you'd need to understand the intention and point of how the map is designed and why the elements are the way they are, then you would need to frame a solution that not only respects and adheres to that intention, but also fixes the problem at hand simultaneously. removing 4 entire players doesn't do that; it makes the map balanced, but it kills the map's identity for the sake of "fairness." this point was why changing x death-realwar was such a divisive and lengthy discussion, and i think it won't be much of a different conversation here
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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] stryde-sniper

Postby phsc » 21 June 2020, 04:21

btw this already ended, however creeperhunter55 didnt like the results
there was a lot of talking in the discord, that achieved this

however creeperhunter55 edited some messages, originally the last one was

and he said something about nobody supporting him and that it wouldnt achieve anything
message link on the discord for that conversation
https://discord.com/channels/3286506457 ... 9518627930
rip
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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] stryde-sniper

Postby yizhe » 21 June 2020, 05:20

this is supposed to be a discussion about the map. Why did it even end up as personal attack? I would recommend this topic to be locked.
Meep!
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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] stryde-sniper

Postby phsc » 21 June 2020, 08:50

it wasnt a personal attack, im just saying the discussion ended with evidence for it
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Re: [EDIT REQUEST] stryde-sniper

Postby Girl_Power » 24 June 2020, 23:36

I am late to the party.

Stryde-sniper is a great map; it should stay as it is. I do not see a problem with the gameplay. The map has been published for years and it lives up to the quality of today's maps. I believe this map should not be edited.
Forever young, ever strong, ever brave.
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