About layers, Gun-Stat window, simplification and comfort

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About layers, Gun-Stat window, simplification and comfort

Postby Whyme » 22 May 2018, 16:44

Hey, long time not seen,

So while working with the Level Editor for a while again I have noticed some things that really seem to bug me a little. And some of them are rather comfort based, some of them are based on features. So without talking too much around it, let me get started.

Being able to work with layers
One thing that is not really a necessity but would heavily increase the creativity factor would be introducing layers into the editor. With layers I mean as example foreground, background and the physical layer (Not the layers on the left). The thing is with some workarounds we can create background and non-physical doors as example. Or generally cause things that are usually physical to not be physical by using the old editor.

But we could turn this into a feature. As example layers could allow to create a foreground. So you could put something physical on this layer, and the character would disappear behind it. It would not be on the physical layer. For background we could as example put weapons, vehicles or similar into the background to give the level a bit more decoration without having to use actual decorations.

Generally layers would make some things much easier to do, and as I said it would give us all some freedom and creativity. If we already speak about layers, having multiple sub-layers would be even better, so we could create multiple doors and decide which ones are shown when they are stacked as example, if you get the point.

Gun-Stat Window
Modding weapons is fun! Being creative about gun triggers, variables and creating some complicated and creative things is even better! It's just a little sad that we have to create countless triggers in order to do so. A few of my levels as example use a LOT of triggers for weapons alone which causes the level to be laggy and the calculations to be slow. I think you get the point of a weapon stat window. Just a small window where we can change the weapon's aspects without having to use external triggers. The external triggers could then be used to alter the weapon while the game is in progress.

It would be cool if that could become a thing, both for the comfort of the level creators and for the engine alike.

Simplification for some things
One major turn-off for the Level Editor is it uses it's good side as a bad side. It is vast, in some parts too vast. Triggers, alright, those are there to be complicated. Even though we could make so many parts of the editor so much more simple. As example.

Door speed, 10... Yeah, what does 10 mean? 10 Inches? 10 eggs? 10 Centimeters? 10 Cubes? Some specific indicators would be really helpful. And that is kind of the same across many parts of the level editor. Explosion power, acid damage, push damage types etc. Clear indicators would be really helpful with calculating things properly. Right now it's basically experimenting and hoping to get it down as soon as possible.

We could also separate triggers between advanced triggers and basic triggers. Variables as example are for advanced. Moving things along X axis would also be advanced. moving a door from region A to region B would be a simple one. This would make the editor easier to learn for new creators.

Creating a comfort
I know, the editor is not really meant for every small child. But me who wants to create levels in an efficient manner would benefit from some things like being able to rename triggers without them losing their function which kinda seems to happen when you do that. Or being able to tell the editor to remember specific options for the last used object. As example being able to tell walls to be "black" instead of being the default "concrete" - That kind of stuff. And the last thing I would really appreciate: Simulate trigger options without having to open the game. Seriously, it would be amazing to see the effects a trigger can do by just... I don't know, giving a small preview?

I know some of the above mentioned suggestions seem weird but especially after working with a few other editors it would be nice to see this kind of stuff.

Best regards ~ Whyme

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Re: About layers, Gun-Stat window, simplification and comfor

Postby mrblake213 » 22 May 2018, 17:29

Being able to work with layers
This is already implemented, you can check which layers you can work on using the tab on the left.
Spoiler: Show More


Gun-Stat Window
This is actually a good idea. Better accessibility to edit guns rather than triggers.

Simplification for some things
I agree with the definition part. Values should be defined clearly but mostly it's 30 fps.

About the trigger action separation, there is already an alternative to the problem which is by separating on what they do.
Spoiler: Show More


Creating a comfort
I agree. The Level editor should provide better accessibility and comfort for the player but this would just be increased work for Eric.
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Re: About layers, Gun-Stat window, simplification and comfor

Postby Whyme » 22 May 2018, 17:39

Greetings,

about the Layers: As I have written in my main post, I'm not talking about the separate elements, I'm talking about background, physical layer and foreground and more specifically, multiple layers to work with so I can make door in Layer BG2 be infront of the Door in Layer BG3 as example, but cause the walls in Layer BG1 to be infront of Doors in BG2 and BG3 - If you catch my point. Not the object layers, but actual layers like you have in paint programs such as Photoshop, Gimp.

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Re: About layers, Gun-Stat window, simplification and comfor

Postby mrblake213 » 22 May 2018, 17:46

Seems complicated enough, you can just select them by selecting multiple individual layers to work on.
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Re: About layers, Gun-Stat window, simplification and comfor

Postby Whyme » 23 May 2018, 12:02

I decided to explain it a little bit better for future reference:

With layers I do not mean the 'layers' we already have in the level editor. I would rather count this as "separating object types" - But not layers, because to me layers are something different. It's depth.

In almost every art program you have the option to create layers. Having layer A above layer B causes the paint you have created in layer A to be shown above layer B. This allows me to quickly change something in layer A without having layer B to be affected by it.

In the case of the PB2 editor it's not much different, at least the way I want it to be. Being able to create (or just having) multiple layers of content. Imagine it like a 3D book. You have stuff in the first layer, you have stuff in the second layer which creates a certain depth. Now just take away the 3D factor and replace it with the physical factor. So if your character walks on layer B, it will not interact with stuff on layer A because layer A as example is a foreground object. If that makes sense.

It has nothing to do with the already existing layers. Because those layers simply represent object separation. Real layers would allow you to put things above or behind other things on different layers.

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Re: About layers, Gun-Stat window, simplification and comfor

Postby mrblake213 » 23 May 2018, 15:57

I know what layers do.
It's just not a necessity for the ALE.
Sure, it provides better convenience for the map maker but there is already alternative ways to do it.
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Re: About layers, Gun-Stat window, simplification and comfor

Postby Whyme » 23 May 2018, 16:25

Yeah, I get the slight suspicion you really have no idea what I am even talking about. Explain with your own words please what I just stated above so I can see that you either understood it or not.

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Re: About layers, Gun-Stat window, simplification and comfor

Postby mrblake213 » 24 May 2018, 05:46

I use Photoshop, I know what layers can do.
It's like glass on top of each other.
If you select a layer, only the things on that layer can be edited/moved/etc.
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Re: About layers, Gun-Stat window, simplification and comfor

Postby Whyme » 24 May 2018, 13:58

Pretty much, yes. But additionally to that, I want to be able to make a Door as example appear in front of a wall, or a weapon in the foreground. I made a video about this just yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaAXQLd ... e=youtu.be I picked up on some of the things I would love to see in PB2 level editor.

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Re: About layers, Gun-Stat window, simplification and comfor

Postby ziomke » 8 April 2019, 18:39

1+
THAT foreground system or whatever you call it, is extreme good, very nice idea...You can make more backgrounds than just the 'background' like the 'red' or 'panel bright'...the rest is good too but i like the foreground the most... :)


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