Issues with "No Guests" Matches.

General Discussion related to the Plazma Burst game series!

Re: Issues with "No Guests" Matches.

Postby Hikarikaze » 11 April 2017, 19:02

AgentIndigo wrote:Well.. ,again form my point of view the admins are a bit like bad people if they support ''NO GUESTS'' matches.

Says the one that unironically supports the notion that nearly everyone else here has made that guests should be treated as some sort of superior group and receive "discrimination" protection. Are you not like the "admins" in that case by placing a group that mainly causes trouble over the others?

Guests are the most annoying usergroup to deal with because there literally is no way to deal with them. It's an easy escape method for those that break the rules because guests are not only anonymous but untraceable. Rather than protecting them further, guests should be restricted. Saying that these matches are "discrimination" when guests stealthily cause havoc a majority of the time because of a widespread majority of trolls and rulebreakers outnumbering the legitimate minority is laughable and shouldn't even be considered to be serious at all. On another note, let's consider matches named "solo espanoles" to be discrimination against everyone else that doesn't speak or know Spanish. This isn't real life where we need some sort of "safe space" for people

Also, why is this an issue now? Where was everyone on this topic when these matches existed for years? Choosing now because a staff member made it "allowed" is pitiful when the lack of action from everyone else here made these matches continue to be "allowed" for years, long before the "no guest" matches were officially considered allowed
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Re: Issues with "No Guests" Matches.

Postby darkstar 1 » 11 April 2017, 19:59

Well, first at all, I barely see such matches, so I don't see how it could be such big of a problem; and if they join those matches they are responsible for what happens to them, like why would you join matches that are not meant to be for you and expect everyone would accept you there? And I don't see how this is so much different from those 'Spanish only', 'French only', ... matches. According to your logic they should be discriminating as well.

I don't really think there would be a differce in the amount of guests that make accounts or not if you allowed or disallowed the 'guest only' matches. All guests will react different to how you treat them, some will make an account if you force them to do with 'violence', others will make their account when they are being treated good.

And it's just a game, remember, it's not like you, as guest, have to take every insult serious.

@JayaRaya Why teaching them to make it? It's not like it's obvious as hell how to make an account :/



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Re: Issues with "No Guests" Matches.

Postby Dr Hell » 12 April 2017, 04:47

Hikarikaze wrote:
AgentIndigo wrote:Well.. ,again form my point of view the admins are a bit like bad people if they support ''NO GUESTS'' matches.

Says the one that unironically supports the notion that nearly everyone else here has made that guests should be treated as some sort of superior group and receive "discrimination" protection. Are you not like the "admins" in that case by placing a group that mainly causes trouble over the others?

Guests are the most annoying usergroup to deal with because there literally is no way to deal with them. It's an easy escape method for those that break the rules because guests are not only anonymous but untraceable. Rather than protecting them further, guests should be restricted. Saying that these matches are "discrimination" when guests stealthily cause havoc a majority of the time because of a widespread majority of trolls and rulebreakers outnumbering the legitimate minority is laughable and shouldn't even be considered to be serious at all. On another note, let's consider matches named "solo espanoles" to be discrimination against everyone else that doesn't speak or know Spanish. This isn't real life where we need some sort of "safe space" for people

Also, why is this an issue now? Where was everyone on this topic when these matches existed for years? Choosing now because a staff member made it "allowed" is pitiful when the lack of action from everyone else here made these matches continue to be "allowed" for years, long before the "no guest" matches were officially considered allowed


True, some users play as Guests just to break the rules and get away from it,which can be absolutely annoying to deal with. Which I can also understand why Guests are often Discriminated. But just because SOME guests do bad things, must we discriminate ALL of them? I don't think so.
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Re: Issues with "No Guests" Matches.

Postby JayaRaya » 12 April 2017, 10:58

darkstar 1 wrote:@JayaRaya Why teaching them to make it? It's not like it's obvious as hell how to make an account :/


Kids that play this game as a new visitors could be a young age or a teenager. Some would quickly understand to make a account, But some others could need help a way to make one. Just my opinion, And i kinda experienced it before.

JayaRaya wrote:Why we not just simply ask & told the guest to made a account ?

Its not even hard, things like this has been slightly forgotten by most users. Basiclly we ask a guest about making a account & we teach them how to do it. For example :

( + ) : Say Guest-28, do you have a account ?
( = ) : No
( + ) : Why ?
( = ) : Because idk how to make one
( + ) : Oh, but are you really want to have one ?
( = ) : yeah, i want to
( + ) : Ok then, i will tell you the way to make a account

And if theres a guest that dont want to make a account, either you leave him / her & respect its choices. Or you motivate the guest to make a account.

From hundreds of my user friends, most of them admit that they are once guest before. And about few of it, i teach them to make a account. For example, Ilham2005. He onces a guest, meet me in some school match. I ask him about the account, he want to have one & dont know how. So i told him the way to do it. Simple thing.
(Now hes on a new account name Diorixtc, that he made himself).


AgentIndigo wrote:Well.. ,again form my point of view the admins are a bit like bad people if they support ''NO GUESTS'' matches.


You may allow to show your opinion, but not that kind of over-reacting there. ~~ regards
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Re: Issues with "No Guests" Matches.

Postby waseem 1192 » 12 April 2017, 16:26

Today i was making sure server is safe by going to no guests matches and making sure that guests aren't being tortured
but sadly i came up to this which was very sad :( i saw a guest being killed non stop and the guest was saying stop and other stuff but still the user wont stop and i found this even more sad when the guest left and said i wont play pb2 again... lets think for a second maybe this guest was just trying the game, maybe he was going to tell his friends about this game, maybe he will think bad about this game because he wasn't being treated properly i say this should stop!
because No guests match have encouraged users to torture guests just because it says no guest, and do u think if a game said no users u will listen... nope u will go to see why is that so does the guests so this should stop!
Proof of what i'm saying : But sadly i couldn't get a screen shot of the guest saying he will not play pb2 again becuase people were speaking fast
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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png
I really hope this stops before it turns into something bigger

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Re: Issues with "No Guests" Matches.

Postby Hikarikaze » 13 April 2017, 01:16

Dr Hell wrote:True, some users play as Guests just to break the rules and get away from it,which can be absolutely annoying to deal with. Which I can also understand why Guests are often Discriminated. But just because SOME guests do bad things, must we discriminate ALL of them? I don't think so.

Not all guests are being discriminated nor is anyone calling for the widespread discrimination of every single guest. This baseless generalization that "all guests are being discriminated xdxd let's do something about it" is not only logically flawed, but also completely incoherent and ignorant in thought. Why? Because it's impossible to discriminate every single possible guest when logging in provides an entirely different guest ID and there's no way to ascertain whether it's the same person or not. To even imply that all guests are being discriminated is stupid at best. Nonsense ideas like labeling these type of matches as discrimination come from nonsense logic like this

Have you even considered as to why these type of matches even exist to begin with? Guests are a nuisance when it comes to abusing their user rights. If a user or a higher rank abuses their rights, it's very easy to catch them but with guests, there's literally no way to stop them. The majority that breaks rules as a guest ruins the gameplay and atmosphere for others, hence the existence of these matches. Now you want to further aggravate the issue and cause a further divide by having these matches be a part of "discrimination?" Isn't your so-called solution discriminatory towards those that just wants to have fun with as little of a nuisance present as possible? Is it not discriminatory to the choices as to what rules a person creating a match can have? Just because some people are being mistreated, this gives you the right to aggravate everyone else? I don't think so

Rather than focusing on the matches, it's better to focus on the guest rank itself. I don't need to repeat what others have said on restricting guests

waseem 1192 wrote:Today i was making sure server is safe by going to no guests matches and making sure that guests aren't being tortured [...] No guests match have encouraged users to torture guests just because it says no guest, and do u think if a game said no users u will listen... nope u will go to see why is that so does the guests so this should stop!

Just stop. Policing the servers isn't your job. If you want the server to be "safe," consider your first option to being leaving the matches alone for once and stop targeting those that seem "discriminatory" in the slightest.

No user matches are literally the same as no guest matches. Users do just as bad as guests and guests do just as bad as users. That doesn't mean we target and create "safe spaces" just because there happens to be a match that says "no x" in the title. You're not protecting anyone by doing that, you're only dividing the community further which is hypocritical if anything

waseem 1192 wrote:I really hope this stops before it turns into something bigger

As if anything being done by you or anyone in favor of "ending guest discrimination" is making the problem smaller than what it is right now
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Re: Issues with "No Guests" Matches.

Postby thetoppestkek » 13 April 2017, 09:08

AgentIndigo wrote:large quote


Why shouldn't they? A lot of users are usually pushed around and harassed by other guests, and treating guests like "a special part of the community" is essentially giving them more bravery to harass other users and to get away with rulebreaking unlike most registered users. Why do you even bother mindlessly supporting this one group if you don't even know what their actions are and what could happen if they gain too much support?

Also, please find definitions of the words "racist" and "bad person", using them like you're doing right now is like calling a microwave a car

JayaRaya wrote:
DoomWrath wrote:snip

large quote


It should be clear to the guest that they are unwanted in the match. Guests entering matches like those proves a lot about the age range of guests and their intelligence, since joining matches like that is like slitting their own throats assuming they read the title and not waltz in like a headless chicken

It's not the match creator's fault for not wanting eleven year olds in their matches who are unaware of the rules, their maturity and even how to make a proper account. Most guests are children and this is proven by their maturity, so the match creators have a right to not want children ruining the experience for everyone

About making an account "not being hard", let's take the fact that guests are children and don't even have email addresses into consideration. You're also forgetting that guests might oppose the idea of making an account and might not be as friendly to the users like you stated in your pitiful example

JayaRaya wrote:
DoomWrath wrote:snip
another large quote


If you read DoomWrath's bloody message correctly, you'd understand why guests not making accounts is actively harming the community.

I won't even go on about you rambling about being a guest and then making an account with the help of other users. We don't care about how you became a user, we only care about the argument you have against "No Guests" matches and how they are considered this pitiful excuse you call "discrimination"

JayaRaya wrote:yet another large quote


You're giving the guest restrictions too much credit. They have the power to start their own matches, they have the power to exclude users, who are considered "less restricted" by the community members, et cetera.

If we were to restrict guests way more, there would be an actual way to get rid of them easily rather than having to exclude them as if they were a regular user.

You also seem unable to comprehend that guests are extremely hard to get rid of. If they keep killing in a custom deathmatch, you cannot exclude them as they have the same exclusion permissions as an actual user.
Giving them "advice" as you call it won't help as they're killing for a reason as well. Why don't you stop mindlessly supporting them and actually take a careful glance at their bloody actions?

The 2015 database crash matter is not important to mention. I was around during that time, and I've never heard about guests being blamed for the database crash. It seems like you're making up bullshit to support your argument. Absolutely pathetic.
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Re: Issues with "No Guests" Matches.

Postby JayaRaya » 13 April 2017, 12:53

thetoppestkek wrote:It should be clear to the guest that they are unwanted in the match. Guests entering matches like those proves a lot about the age range of guests and their intelligence, since joining matches like that is like slitting their own throats assuming they read the title and not waltz in like a headless chicken

It's not the match creator's fault for not wanting eleven year olds in their matches who are unaware of the rules, their maturity and even how to make a proper account. Most guests are children and this is proven by their maturity, so the match creators have a right to not want children ruining the experience for everyone


Either the guests still dont know anything about the meaning of the match name or they just curious to know why someone make that match name.

thetoppestkek wrote:About making an account "not being hard", let's take the fact that guests are children and don't even have email addresses into consideration. You're also forgetting that guests might oppose the idea of making an account and might not be as friendly to the users like you stated in your pitiful example


About the requirement of a email addresses, thats a tricky one. And yes, i have being oppose by many bad annoying guests that refuse to make a account. Only manage to convinces 2-3 good guests to do so (which is later become my user friends in here).

thetoppestkek wrote:If you read DoomWrath's bloody message correctly, you'd understand why guests not making accounts is actively harming the community.


I do understand it, makes the number of new account players reducing. Im just suggesting to try convinces the good guests to make an account, just like in the old times. About the bad guests, considering that they could be annoying & refuses a lot, forcing them do allow in my mind. But about the good guests, im still advices them. Its my opinion.

thetoppestkek wrote:I won't even go on about you rambling about being a guest and then making an account with the help of other users. We don't care about how you became a user, we only care about the argument you have against "No Guests" matches and how they are considered this pitiful excuse you call "discrimination"


For the record, is not my post. And im just telling my opinion mostly about the guests, not fully about the match name.

JayaRaya wrote:My opinion about the Guest in this game :

- We all know, that guest is a visitor of the game. They try out the game to see if its fun to be played.


thetoppestkek wrote:You're giving the guest restrictions too much credit. They have the power to start their own matches, they have the power to exclude users, who are considered "less restricted" by the community members, et cetera.

If we were to restrict guests way more, there would be an actual way to get rid of them easily rather than having to exclude them as if they were a regular user.


So in your opinion, we should limited them even more. If PB2 staffs gotta do something about the limit system about it, then its not a big issued. Likefor an example, " 30 minutes of your limit time is over, to play more, go made a account ".

thetoppestkek wrote:You also seem unable to comprehend that guests are extremely hard to get rid of. If they keep killing in a custom deathmatch, you cannot exclude them as they have the same exclusion permissions as an actual user.
Giving them "advice" as you call it won't help as they're killing for a reason as well. Why don't you stop mindlessly supporting them and actually take a careful glance at their bloody actions?


Actually, i mentioned this on a private match. Considering a user could be a gamemaster & can easily excluded someone. While on public match, of course it would be hard. And is not about killings, what im actually saying is that in my opinion, advice the guests to make a account. Its never easy, but i choose this way.

Supporting them? im just advices the good guests to make a account & forced the bad guests.

thetoppestkek wrote:The 2015 database crash matter is not important to mention. I was around during that time, and I've never heard about guests being blamed for the database crash. It seems like you're making up bullshit to support your argument. Absolutely pathetic.


This just off-topic. Actually, i was around during that time aswell. And theres actually some persons makes some lies & blamed the guests for that event. Is just a completely nonsenses, lies, & related to clan-drama. Thats why i dont trust them (persons that blamed the guests for the data lost because of a hacking attempt). And not only me, some of old players in some clans do heard it at that time.

This just my opinion, i have rights to say it. Just like you have rights to say it aswell.
If anyone either agreed or disagreed, go ahead. Im just saying things according to my thinking. ~~ Regards
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Re: Issues with "No Guests" Matches.

Postby Hikarikaze » 13 April 2017, 18:35

I overlooked this part entirely

JayaRaya wrote:" Imagine like a new student has being forced to finish a mathematic, yet without any given knowledge from its teacher to finish it. "

Making an account and mathematics are 2 completely different things. It's extremely easy to make an account once a person passes the point where they click the register button, which I'm positive is far more simple than most mathematical fields

In terms of your example, making an account is as easy as counting up to 0 while it's being implied here that making an account is like solving a logarithmic equation

JayaRaya wrote:And if i remember, one of the former staff (maybe Hikarikaze or someone.. i forgot) say that " fact that most of the users are once a guests before ". Means that before we are a official user, we are a guest. Learning the way of how PB2 works & how to make our own account.~

That's not what it means at all

It's also nowhere near what I said. What I actually said was that everyone, regardless of rank, is technically a guest on this site. It's the equivalent of visiting someone else's house. You can't just do whatever you want and there's rules you have to follow. Coming to this site is a right and if you don't want to come to the site, feel free not to exercise that right. Similarly, people have a right to set the rules for their own matches while people also have a right to join those matches. Don't want to join a match you don't like? Don't join it then, but don't prevent other people from doing the things you personally don't like just because you don't like what they're doing

I would say having an account is advantageous but right now it's not the case. It's far more advantageous to be a guest which shouldn't be the case. A lower rank shouldn't have more power than a rank above it because then it wouldn't be lower anymore. Users in the ranking hierarchy are the true bottom level group right now, not guests, and the fact no restrictions have been imposed on guests (and no, prohibiting access to ranked matches doesn't count in regards to what I'm referring to) yet is discriminatory to users, who have plenty of restrictions

JayaRaya wrote:Either the guests still dont know anything about the meaning of the match name or they just curious to know why someone make that match name.

Guests are still responsible for taking a risk and thus cannot be defended when they become antagonized because they brought it upon themselves. If they don't know anything about what a match title means, they're taking a risk by entering it. Entering matches is optional. By willingly entering a match, the excuses of "I didn't know" or "it was an accident" are automatically off the table

As for being curious, this would be proof that they comprehend very well that guests are not allowed yet if someone as a guest enters a match, they willingly place themselves at risk. Again, this is entirely optional. Guests who purposefully enter "no guest" matches for whatever reason, knowing that they'll be antagonized and that guests aren't allowed, can't be defended for their actions because they have clear understanding of the risk yet chose to ignore it and continue onwards into the match

JayaRaya wrote:This just off-topic. Actually, i was around during that time aswell. And theres actually some persons makes some lies & blamed the guests for that event. Is just a completely nonsenses, lies, & related to clan-drama. Thats why i dont trust them (persons that blamed the guests for the data lost because of a hacking attempt). And not only me, some of old players in some clans do heard it at that time.

No such accusations took place from my observations, and I generally/usually know what's happening both on and off PB2. I was there right when the crash happened and for a while after it happened. Nobody at all had accused guests of the database crash nor were guests accused of "hacking." Hacking was believed to be a possible cause for most but guests were never put into the equation. The "hacker" in question was always anonymously referred to
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Re: Issues with "No Guests" Matches.

Postby Super- » 13 April 2017, 23:12

Meh....guests can be a little cancerous in the matches....but it isn't fair for guests to not play Plazma Burst 2 and matches...they are just here to view and discover the game so just let them be.

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Re: Issues with "No Guests" Matches.

Postby WolfMaster12 » 26 April 2017, 20:49

Super- wrote:Meh....guests can be a little cancerous in the matches....but it isn't fair for guests to not play Plazma Burst 2 and matches...they are just here to view and discover the game so just let them be.


Yeah, sure thing...

I do not lie that I have also been on as a guest, but hey! That's 1% of how much others do... Guests still mustn't have more rights or deserve a special treatment, and also, clans like "Guest Regime", "Guest Army" or "Justice of Guests" bring more chaos. Good luck.
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Re: Issues with "No Guests" Matches.

Postby MI6 AGENT 007 » 27 April 2017, 02:42

I agree with this that matches like that shouldnt be create as its like a guestcide where many account pick on guests by kicking them out of the match throwing put downs at them, or threatening them. Guests should have a right to join any match they want( not ranked matches ofc) but any other they should included in as well as if leaving them out of matches or kicking them, throwing put downs at them they probably feel some type of way.
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Re: Issues with "No Guests" Matches.

Postby WolfMaster12 » 27 April 2017, 13:19

MI6 AGENT 007 wrote:I agree with this that matches like that shouldnt be create as its like a guestcide where many account pick on guests by kicking them out of the match throwing put downs at them, or threatening them. Guests should have a right to join any match they want( not ranked matches ofc) but any other they should included in as well as if leaving them out of matches or kicking them, throwing put downs at them they probably feel some type of way.


"guestcide"

Imagine I am in a match as a guest and use hacks to get myself kills... Would you report me in case you do not know if I had an account and if I had, what was it called? Guests put players in such situations. So, yes. As DoomWrath said much before, "No Guests" matches push people into making an account, discovering more features and - taking risks. I support "No Guests" matches.

#RIPPB2Community
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Re: Issues with "No Guests" Matches.

Postby KARL SERG » 27 April 2017, 21:51

waseem 1192 wrote:Today i was making sure server is safe by going to no guests matches and making sure that guests aren't being tortured
but sadly i came up to this which was very sad :( i saw a guest being killed non stop and the guest was saying stop and other stuff but still the user wont stop and i found this even more sad when the guest left and said i wont play pb2 again... lets think for a second maybe this guest was just trying the game, maybe he was going to tell his friends about this game, maybe he will think bad about this game because he wasn't being treated properly i say this should stop!


You know how it is said: "Eliminate the weak links."

If he truly likes this Game, he will make an Account to receive less discrimination. If not, then it is his/her Problem.
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Re: Issues with "No Guests" Matches.

Postby MI6 AGENT 007 » 27 April 2017, 23:53

WolfMaster12 wrote:
MI6 AGENT 007 wrote:I agree with this that matches like that shouldnt be create as its like a guestcide where many account pick on guests by kicking them out of the match throwing put downs at them, or threatening them. Guests should have a right to join any match they want( not ranked matches ofc) but any other they should included in as well as if leaving them out of matches or kicking them, throwing put downs at them they probably feel some type of way.


"guestcide"

Imagine I am in a match as a guest and use hacks to get myself kills... Would you report me in case you do not know if I had an account and if I had, what was it called? Guests put players in such situations. So, yes. As DoomWrath said much before, "No Guests" matches push people into making an account, discovering more features and - taking risks. I support "No Guests" matches.

#RIPPB2Community

Ok let me fix my sentence above then to be more clear....
WolfMaster12 wrote:
MI6 AGENT 007 wrote:I agree with this that matches like that shouldnt be create as its like a guestcide where many account pick on guests by kicking them out of the match throwing put downs at them, or threatening them. Guests should have a right to join any match they want( not ranked matches, unranked mtaches ofc) but any other matches like Custom matches they should be included in as well as if leaving them out of matches or kicking them, throwing put downs at them they probably feel some type of way.
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Re: Issues with "No Guests" Matches.

Postby tehswordninja » 29 April 2017, 05:11

Personally I believe this topic should have ended at Doomwrath's reply.

This whole "discrimination" thing is quite out of whack.

Simply because a user wants people who have spent the time to make an account, showing they are capable of basic skills relating to PB2 does not mean that person is suddenly some sort of bad person or Racist.


Seriously. It's a few people who haven't made accounts yet on PB2. Should people yell at them and break the rules against them? No. But should they be allowed to simply act as if they are identical to normal players?
who needs a PB2.5 release date, anyways?
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Re: Issues with "No Guests" Matches.

Postby MI6 AGENT 007 » 29 April 2017, 06:11

tehswordninja wrote:Personally I believe this topic should have ended at Doomwrath's reply.

This whole "discrimination" thing is quite out of whack.

Simply because a user wants people who have spent the time to make an account, showing they are capable of basic skills relating to PB2 does not mean that person is suddenly some sort of bad person or Racist.


Seriously. It's a few people who haven't made accounts yet on PB2. Should people yell at them and break the rules against them? No. But should they be allowed to simply act as if they are identical to normal players?

I agree with this statement everybody should be treated like normal players no matter who they are.
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Re: Issues with "No Guests" Matches

Postby Dr Hell » 29 April 2017, 06:51

I agree with MI6, as I said, Guests form a large part of this Community, without Guests, PB2's multiplayer may not be known to many. Think, SOME Guests are just people who want to try the Game, if they find it good, they may recommend it to their friends, but if we treat them harshly, they may spread the word by saying that PB2's Multiplayer is bad. I also understand that SOME Guests join in Matches ready to kill and bully when they are NOT supposed to, which I can agree can be very frustrating to manage. I feel that instead of killing Guests instantly thinking they will do bad things. I feel that we should keep a close eye on them. Some may have good intentions, while some may have bad intentions, so monitoring Guests is the best way without giving them any harsh treatment straight away.
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Re: Issues with "No Guests" Matches.

Postby KARL SERG » 29 April 2017, 09:14

MI6 AGENT 007 wrote:
tehswordninja wrote:Personally I believe this topic should have ended at Doomwrath's reply.

This whole "discrimination" thing is quite out of whack.

Simply because a user wants people who have spent the time to make an account, showing they are capable of basic skills relating to PB2 does not mean that person is suddenly some sort of bad person or Racist.


Seriously. It's a few people who haven't made accounts yet on PB2. Should people yell at them and break the rules against them? No. But should they be allowed to simply act as if they are identical to normal players?

I agree with this statement everybody should be treated like normal players no matter who they are.


Why? Last time it was checked, they weren't exactly like "normal Players". First of all, they are not susceptible to rules, thus they can do whatever they want. Lastly, it is more difficult to kick them.

I agree that they shouldn't be discriminated, but if that motivates them to make an Account rather than remaining in this state, then so be it.
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Re: Issues with "No Guests" Matches.

Postby Dr Hell » 30 April 2017, 06:04

I don't think Discrimination should be the Reason why they are motivated to make an Account, as I said, instead of getting motivated to make an Account, some are motivated to QUIT PB2 and may even spread the word to their friends not to play this Game at all. Honestly, I'm sure you guys don't like to hear someone saying that, but if we continue discriminating Guests, then we'll continue hearing stuff like this.
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