Chat

General Discussion related to the Plazma Burst game series!

Re: Chat

Postby monkeyman2535 » 19 November 2015, 01:41

DoomWrath wrote:If you're playing the game at all, developing maps, contributing *something*, then that doesn't apply to you.

If you don't even use the main site functions (game/LE/etc) and are only here to cause a stir and complain about the current state of the community, maybe it's time to move on. Sorry if you find that somehow offensive.

Does this even apply to you? When was the last map you made? When was the last time you played PB2? Same goes for the whole deliciously exquisite pizza sauce' staff. Jesus.
Are you trying to piss on the community on purpose? If so, you're doing a damn swell job at it.
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Re: Chat

Postby DoomWrath » 19 November 2015, 01:57

monkeyman2535 wrote:
DoomWrath wrote:If you're playing the game at all, developing maps, contributing *something*, then that doesn't apply to you.

If you don't even use the main site functions (game/LE/etc) and are only here to cause a stir and complain about the current state of the community, maybe it's time to move on. Sorry if you find that somehow offensive.

Does this even apply to you? When was the last map you made? When was the last time you played PB2? Same goes for the whole f***' staff. Jesus.
Are you trying to piss on the community on purpose? If so, you're doing a damn swell job at it.


Last time I played an MP game, about 2 hours ago. Edited a map prior to doing that, maybe 2 hours 40 minutes ago. Can't speak for the rest of the team, but taking a look into today's staff chat, there's a bunch of ingame screenshots, chatter about matches and whatnot. It's clear that we do play the game.

=====

As I said previously, enough with overcharged emotional posts. Yes this is a forum, yes you can have opinions. But enough with being downright rude.
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Re: Chat

Postby monkeyman2535 » 19 November 2015, 02:14

DoomWrath wrote:Last time I played an MP game, about 2 hours ago. Edited a map prior to doing that, maybe 2 hours 40 minutes ago. Can't speak for the rest of the team, but taking a look into today's staff chat, there's a bunch of ingame screenshots, chatter about matches and whatnot. It's clear that we do play the game.

=====

As I said previously, enough with overcharged emotional posts. Yes this is a forum, yes you can have opinions. But enough with being downright rude.

I'm glad you're all having so much fun, but I've been semi-frequenting multiplayer as well, in both approved and unapproved maps, ranked and unranked, and I've managed this entire time to not see a single one of you. As for your maps, I haven't seen anything new from you in a long while. Perhaps, once again, I've missed something. I'd like to see evidence of each staff's recent in-game time so we can all gauge it for ourselves and see if you're all active and engaged enough to be considered useful members of the community, just like how you're gauging the userbase of this forum.
It's rather amusing how you've made the assumption that the users who criticize the staff don't play the game or contribute. How the hell would you know?
It's also amusing how well you've picked up on labeling reactions as "overcharged [and] emotional", given the fact you're on a staff that says things like this: http://prntscr.com/8zk10c
By the way, I'm still waiting on my apology on the one-month ban Tempus slapped me with awhile back.
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Re: Chat

Postby The Demian » 19 November 2015, 02:50

Hold on.
Back in days when we had chat i used to roam all approved matches to play/catch rule breakers, whatever. Sometimes i met Wasted or Mingo or Mono. Now, multiplayer activity should increase, and also there are like 100+ matches on the server. Finding a mod ingame is not that common tho. I bet doom is tracking multiplayer activity, not gonna ask for numbers, but i rlly have faith on that

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Re: Chat

Postby DoomWrath » 19 November 2015, 03:04

I have a tool to track mod activity ingame, but it's very very limited. Overall it's tell me that the staff have spent at least 86 hours in approved matches over the past three weeks. That's split between 6 site moderators and a Head Mod, who are the ones responsible for ingame moderation. Admins really are here to keep the site and staff team together, along with some other things like sorting out community mess and ensuring the main feature of the site (game) is running smoothly.

On top of that is time spent in custom maps, which make up for the majority of matches and playerbase. This isn't tracked by the tool, but I can safely assume each mod spends at least 1-2 hours per week on custom maps.

That accounts to approximately 4 hours a week ingame per moderator, which is 35-40 minutes a day ingame. I personally thing this figure is good, but could be improved - Three 20 minute sessions a day ingame per staff member give pretty good coverage.

Add an extra hour for the custom maps and you come out with ~40-50 minutes per day. Totalled up that comes out at 4.6 hours, just under half the time a mod is required to be active per week. The rest is usually spent on the forums or onsite, answering posts/inbox messages, serving site warnings and bans, or investigating warnings.

-----

There are lots of reasons you won't see mods ingame. Maybe you play a different map to the one the mods enjoy playing, or you play at different times, on a different server, or you just plain can't catch them since they're spread over such a large number of games.

Would be nice to have staff as commonly spotted players ingame, but with a fairly small team, that's not always possible.
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Re: Chat

Postby artichokecat » 19 November 2015, 08:17

Hm. Ok. I've read pretty much everything up to this point, all 8 pages and I'd like to add my opinion.
I joined the chat during the summer (In America because not everyone in the world has summer at the same time)

And I enjoyed it. The people were pleasant and fun to talk to when they were on (and quite entertaining),
Though there were the trolls and such (who pretty much ruined it sometimes).
I understand why it was removed, and I guess I can agree with the logic.

So now I'm just a bit sad that's it gone but it's ok because as I've heard,
there will be a new once waiting for us in PB 2.5
So, eventually, all things must come to an end, we let it go,
And something else starts anew.

And in terms of activity, because I saw some people arguing over that so I want to give some background.

First I played mostly Multiplayer.
Then I spent most of my time on the chat when I found it and while it was there, With some Multiplayer,
But have now moved onto mostly Map-making and obsessively checking the forums
to see if anyone has checked out my maps
(Not very much, but about the same amount I would get from Chat anyway :P)
And occasional Multiplayer when I want to play my Published MP maps, or kill people, or do Flips in 707-swords
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Re: Chat

Postby NNC » 19 November 2015, 10:56

BTW, just wanted to ask something:

It tells me to use a third-party chat. Ok, I don't have anything against this. But why lock topics which link to those third-party chats? How else are people supposed to know about third-party chats' existence, if not sharing chat links through forums? Topics are a much better way when compared to PM spam, and a much more effective way when compared to sending invites one-by-one with a risk of being reported for spam.

And no, clan chats can never replace free-for-all chats. Joining a clan just to get the ability to chat in clan's chat kinda sucks, especially considering that those who'd want to chat with me would have to join that clan too.


_________________________

Alica wrote:This whole mess is turning into a hate-topic where everyone is posting her/his pointless complains
[...]
Since the chat was a PRIVILEGE for YOU to communicate to each other, EVERY single person here shares the responsibility of what happened there. And why? Because it was a PRIVILEGE for ALL of YOU. You people did abuse it constantly, we did remove it.
You mentioned pointless hate complaints and then made one more, gg. hypocrisy overflow
"Humans were given a privelege to speak. A few of them abused it, shooting bad words at everyone they saw. Therefore, we decided to disallow ALL humans to speak, as we can't moderate the world 24/7. And all the humans are at fault here."

Do I really hear this bullshit from a staff member?
The majority of players never knew there's a site chat, how do they share the responsibility? A number of those who was in chat have never done anything bad, why do they share the responsibility? And what does the "responsibility" mean, actually? How am I responsible of the chat shutdown, exactly? Staff members are those who decided to take it down, why don't you call them responsible while they ARE responsible for that in the first place?

Alica, have you ever thought that such phrases sent by you (and few more staff members) is why this thread turning into a... how you said, hate-topic? People are not going to just sit here and listen to such ridiculous explanations.

Alica wrote:from time to time this joke of a discussing topic is becoming more and more silly.
Did you just called this whole topic a joke? By claiming this topic as a joke, you basically said "I give 0 f***s to your opinions" to everyone who posted a single reply in it. This is not a kind of behaviour expected from a staff member.
(I hope I misunderstood you here, or else it's no use.)
~~~~
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Re: Chat

Postby Lord Blue Blood » 19 November 2015, 12:44

DoomWrath wrote:I understand why people are angry. But if you're not here for the game, you don't really have a place to moan and complain about what the staff team decide to do with added extras to the game that you are dependant on.

If you're playing the game at all, developing maps, contributing *something*, then that doesn't apply to you.

If you don't even use the main site functions (game/LE/etc) and are only here to cause a stir and complain about the current state of the community, maybe it's time to move on. Sorry if you find that somehow offensive.

O, i see how it is, you are telling us we can't complain since we don't play the game, but maybe its the other way around, maybe we aren't playing the game because we feel something isn't right and thats why we are here trying to knock some logic unto you.
You see we aren't playing the game and "complaining" here BECAUSE we think there is something wrong and it should be changed which means your idea that if we don't play it we can't complain is invalid, just like saying you can't complain about the current government because you didn't vote, actually since you voted for that government you don't have the right to complain because you supported it and the person who didn't vote for it isn't supporting it therefore he has the right to complain. 2hard4u to figure out...? :roll:
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Re: Chat

Postby KARL SERG » 19 November 2015, 13:53

monkeyman2535 wrote:
DoomWrath wrote:If you're playing the game at all, developing maps, contributing *something*, then that doesn't apply to you.

If you don't even use the main site functions (game/LE/etc) and are only here to cause a stir and complain about the current state of the community, maybe it's time to move on. Sorry if you find that somehow offensive.

Does this even apply to you? When was the last map you made? When was the last time you played PB2? Same goes for the whole f***' staff. Jesus.
Are you trying to piss on the community on purpose? If so, you're doing a damn swell job at it.


monkeyman2535 wrote:[It's rather amusing how you've made the assumption that the users who criticize the staff don't play the game or contribute. How the hell would you know?
It's also amusing how well you've picked up on labeling reactions as "overcharged [and] emotional", given the fact you're on a staff that says things like this: http://prntscr.com/8zk10c
By the way, I'm still waiting on my apology on the one-month ban Tempus slapped me with awhile back.


Are the Staff Members stirring Drama? I don't think so.
Give them a Break; whether they did it because they found it too hard to supervise it or because the People are abusive, it doesn't matter. It's not such a bad Decision and we can live without it, even if it means that we'll have to Communicate through PMs now (isn't Privacy what you want, after all?).
The Chat wasn't that Active or interesting anymore anyway (although that could have changed, but still) and, although I miss it as well, I think that the Community doesn't suffer that much because of its Loss. It's the Staff's Decision, it's not the Best, it doesn't produce Happiness (thank God), but, in Theory, it makes thing simpler. If you disagree, I can only tell you there are otehr Communities with their own Chats and they will most likely not be upset to have any of you there, so I suggest adapting to this somehow instead of complaining. (I like how we switched Places on the Balance.)

NNC wrote:BTW, just wanted to ask something:
Spoiler: Show More

It tells me to use a third-party chat. Ok, I don't have anything against this. But why lock topics which link to those third-party chats? How else are people supposed to know about third-party chats' existence, if not sharing chat links through forums?


^This is a good Idea.
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Re: Chat

Postby DoomWrath » 19 November 2015, 14:24

Generally third party chats refer to programs such as Skype or ICQ - that's why there are profile fields for them. Linking to webchats is not allowed as it is a form of leeching. Any other webchats can be linked in PMs, because those aren't advertising.

As for the "If you don't play the game stop complaining" comment - I cannot believe how much such a minor comment has been sensationalised. That kind of behaviour is exactly what we mean by 'drama' - we can't make one somewhat controversial remark without getting shit on by a few specific community members. Does make me think that if it wasn't true, there wouldn't be such backlash.

On the other side, those same people think they can get away with abusive arguments to the staff. On another note, when *I* tell people to stop giving overcharged emotional replies, and you then say "That's bullshit, you do it too" and give me a screenshot of somebody else entirely posting something emotionally charged, that's absolutely meaningless to me. When I say "stop posting overcharged emotional garbage" that applies to everyone. Staff and players.

=====

"Do I really hear this bullshit from a staff member?
The majority of players never knew there's a site chat, how do they share the responsibility? A number of those who was in chat have never done anything bad, why do they share the responsibility? And what does the "responsibility" mean, actually? How am I responsible of the chat shutdown, exactly? Staff members are those who decided to take it down, why don't you call them responsible while they ARE responsible for that in the first place?"


I personally thought it was very clear what Alica meant by her post. She's referring to every member here who was a part of the chat community - if these outdated forums had allowed me to go back and check, I could probably find pages and pages of screenshots of plenty of the people in this thread breaking rules (the kind of rules that every web community has, not silly little "you get banned for saying staff = poo" rules.). Everyone who abused the chat is responsible in some small part for its removal. The majority of responsibility falls to the chatroom itself - the thing was outdated and insecure. The staff fill the rest, Eric, the admins, and the site mods all played a part.

I still think it's odd that this is such an issue, when PB2.5 is close, and with it a new chatroom.

Though the wording Alica used is definitely far too emotionally intense - it's frankly not helping the situation at all. But neither is you shouting 'bullshit' after it. From those two posts I get the image of you, as a 12 year old kid, arguing with the hall monitor in a middle school canteen.

"Alica, have you ever thought that such phrases sent by you (and few more staff members) is why this thread turning into a... how you said, hate-topic? People are not going to just sit here and listen to such ridiculous explanations." - this here is very true, but applies to everyone else too. Alica, Lord Blue Blood, Monkeyman, NNC, Terabrion, etc.

=====

"from time to time this joke of a discussing topic is becoming more and more silly." - Alica.

"Did you just called this whole topic a joke? By claiming this topic as a joke, you basically said "I give 0 f***s to your opinions" to everyone who posted a single reply in it. This is not a kind of behaviour expected from a staff member.
(I hope I misunderstood you here, or else it's no use.)" - NNC


While what Alica said was uncalled for, your own replies and behaviour give us the impression that "I give 0 f***s to your opinions" to all the staff members that have posted here trying to give their opinions/explanations.

=============================================================
=============================================================

At this stage nobody is getting nowhere, and both sides think each of the other is at fault. Clearly there's something wrong on both sides, I accept the team is cranky (nobody likes arguing for days straight). You have your opinions and we have ours.

Enough.

Let's figure out what we're going to do now, because arguing is pointless. Any further non-constructive posting is just going to result in a long ban.
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Re: Chat

Postby Roxxar » 19 November 2015, 15:09

With all due respect, what is this "WE" in that "let's figure out what we're going to do now" statement? It seems that despite so much argument/discussion in the last 7 pages, the topic has somehow gotten nowhere. The staff team seems too stubborn OR set on keeping the chat shut off and it also seems like the community's input barely even matters.

Is bringing the chat back a viable option now, and if so, what will it take to even BRING it back?
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Re: Chat

Postby drosebush » 19 November 2015, 15:32

Roxxar wrote:With all due respect, what is this "WE" in that "let's figure out what we're going to do now" statement? It seems that despite so much argument/discussion in the last 7 pages, the topic has somehow gotten nowhere. The staff team seems too stubborn OR set on keeping the chat shut off and it also seems like the community's input barely even matters.

Is bringing the chat back a viable option now, and if so, what will it take to even BRING it back?


So you're deciding to point fingers at staff and that this topic is being derailed faster than an explosion can take place. Not to mention the fact that being in the chat firsthand, I can say this entire community is going bad slowly. For all intents and purposes, chat can stay down until users learn to be mature about things and NOT point fingers at staff. The community's input does matter, but with a consequence of this size, an appeal is NOT going to be considered immediately. I swear, some of you people need to learn to have some patience in life. K? Thanks!

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Re: Chat

Postby DoomWrath » 19 November 2015, 15:43

When I say 'WE' I mean everyone who posts to this topic. And the fact that this topic has gotten nowhere is exactly why I said that 'we need to figure out what to do now'.

The fact is:
Chat is shut off. Unless a secure, embeddable chat is developed, and can be implemented to PB2 with email verification and other control measures, then it will not be returning. PB2.5 should have more secure accounts, so an account-based chat (as with previous PB2 chat) would be workable.

The staff team are very very aware that there are unhappy people, there are 7 pages of arguments about it. There's really no point in posting any more about that subject. I'd lock this topic, but I feel like there are far more issues between the community and the staff team to close it now.
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Re: Chat

Postby The Demian » 19 November 2015, 19:14

With all respect, if we want to go somewhere:
- Alica stop replying here because you are only inciting flames into a pissed off community.
- Doom watch your words, only 1 "minor" comment is deadly
- The rest, we all deviated from the path here.

About security, its pretty weird that i am the only user that gets a ban screen whenever i try to test out tor saying "Tor accounts are blocked from login into the site"

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Re: Chat

Postby DoomWrath » 19 November 2015, 19:21

The Demian wrote:With all respect, if we want to go somewhere:
- Alica stop replying here because you are only inciting flames into a pissed off community.
- Doom watch your words, only 1 "minor" comment is deadly
- The rest, we all deviated from the path here.

About security, its pretty weird that i am the only user that gets a ban screen whenever i try to test out tor saying "Tor accounts are blocked from login into the site"


You're from Argentina right? Tor probably only hooks you up to nearby nodes, and your nearby nodes may be banned. EU/US nodes are still open.
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Re: Chat

Postby spirit9871 » 19 November 2015, 21:13

Okay.

I've been lurking this topic for quite a while now, unsure as to what to say since the atmosphere here is just so tense. But now it's come to such an advanced point that even someone extremely close to me had lost something precious as a result of this entire debacle. It's come to a point where I can't really take seeing this anymore.

Out of the approximate 150 posts that have been said here, literally less than a dozen of them have actually suggested any sort of solutions to the problems laid out by Staff and others in the community. At the same time however, the responses I've seen from Staff here are undeniably unsatisfactory. This topic has devolved from a potentially intellectual discussion into chimps throwing shit at each other every other post.

Staff. The reason why the community is upset is because you are clearly not utilizing the community itself as a reliable source of feedback on these matters. Why haven't I seen a post that actually asks the players to suggest how to improve the chat system? If you say that people are complaining about it so much, then why not allow them to take direct part in trying to fix this dilemma so they can understand the issue first-hand themselves?

This has become a consistent problem on these forums, and the excuse I find blown off with this behavior is that the community is "toxic." It honestly irritates me to see that people's opinions are being disregarded with this sort of Us Vs. Them mentality we have built between Staff and the community. There are so many innovative and analytic people on these forums that it disappoints me to see them feel like their thoughts aren't really being noticed or appreciated.

So let's try and go back to square one, this time working together instead of saying this and that about other people. I can tell that almost everyone here is sick and tired of even having to see others plow through this. And I would like to start a more meaningful discussion here:

viewtopic.php?f=117&t=14853

Let's try one last time to have a meaningful discussion about this. Because at the rate at which things are going, no actual progress will be made in making this game a better place for anyone.
Last edited by spirit9871 on 20 November 2015, 00:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chat

Postby Roxxar » 19 November 2015, 21:47

drosebush wrote:So you're deciding to point fingers at staff and that this topic is being derailed faster than an explosion can take place. Not to mention the fact that being in the chat firsthand, I can say this entire community is going bad slowly. For all intents and purposes, chat can stay down until users learn to be mature about things and NOT point fingers at staff. The community's input does matter, but with a consequence of this size, an appeal is NOT going to be considered immediately. I swear, some of you people need to learn to have some patience in life. K? Thanks!

With all due respect, my intents of that post were to redirect the topic to possible solutions/options for the chat. Not sure how that's "derailing" or "pointing fingers," but please inform me instead of blatantly accusing me of something I had no purpose of doing.

However, and once again with all due respect, staff is the only one to point fingers at. The community cannot physically take down or bring back the chat, unofficial ones apparently cannot be advertised/represented here, and the only official one is completely and totally managed by staff. Of course it seems I'm pointing fingers at staff, they're the only ones who can actually DO something with the website. This is just an opinion that can be taken in any way/shape/form, feel free to criticize the comment.

Sure the community and myself can be considered "immature, toxic, impatient, and bad," but that doesn't solve anything. If the community is ANY of these things, solutions would be more appreciated than a blatant statement saying that they are. IIRC, Doom's 2nd-to-last post here states that the chat is indeed down for good (until PB2.5 at least). Therefore, the community really has no say in bringing back the PB2 chat. Keep in mind, this does not hinder the PB2.5 chat unless it scales extremely out of hand, I'm just saying it hinders only the PB2 chat status.

And I just asked how we can get it back, not sure how that comes off as impatient to you, but okay

@Doomwrath: So basically there is no viable, official solution until PB2.5? What are your first thoughts/opinions on the future chat(s)? What is something you expect from the chat and/or the community?
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Re: Chat

Postby monkeyman2535 » 19 November 2015, 23:44

I LOVE STAFF wrote:Chat was cancerous anyway, autism was shown both from the staff and the people who used it. Chat is gone now, f*** deal with it. Stop crying like its the end of the f*** world. It has done little to nothing with pb2 activity. Geez, just move on and stop getting butthurt over eachothers opinions.

I like how the guy who just got banned, has an obvious troll name, and can't express an opinion without flinging around words like "cancer" and "autism" is railing for people to stop being "butthurt".
Gee whiz, the internet is a magical place.
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Re: Chat

Postby The Demian » 20 November 2015, 02:56

I LOVE STAFF wrote:Chat was cancerous anyway, autism was shown both from the staff and the people who used it. Chat is gone now, f*** deal with it. Stop crying like its the end of the f*** world. It has done little to nothing with pb2 activity. Geez, just move on and stop getting butthurt over eachothers opinions.

Lol im done.

Cant you say anything more constructive m8?

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Re: Chat

Postby ilijah999 » 20 November 2015, 14:46

I LOVE STAFF wrote:It has done little to nothing with pb2 activity. Geez, just move on and stop getting butthurt over eachothers opinions.


It did have an impact on PB2. A ton of people used it to communicate when playing games or if they just wanted to chat. I saw no reason in taking away the chat for drama. It's pretty normal on public chats on almost any game.

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